Comments on: An Affair with God http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/ There Is No 'You' In Quivering ... Thu, 17 May 2012 00:53:03 +0000 hourly 1 By: Anonymous http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/comment-page-1/#comment-451 Anonymous Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:30:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/#comment-451 Men handle guilt differently than women. When I read this story, and outsider for sure, I was thinking Dale had an affair in Brazil and was feeling a little unclean and unworthy. One can never know, but such a change maes me think a woman may misinterpret the signals and take them personally. My husband was a pastors son and their way of dealing with their shortcomings is to throw themselves into thier religiosity, nothing to do with faith. LONG married in Oregon Men handle guilt differently than women. When I read this story, and outsider for sure, I was thinking Dale had an affair in Brazil and was feeling a little unclean and unworthy. One can never know, but such a change maes me think a woman may misinterpret the signals and take them personally. My husband was a pastors son and their way of dealing with their shortcomings is to throw themselves into thier religiosity, nothing to do with faith. LONG married in Oregon

]]> By: Anonymous http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/comment-page-1/#comment-452 Anonymous Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:30:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/#comment-452 Men handle guilt differently than women. When I read this story, and outsider for sure, I was thinking Dale had an affair in Brazil and was feeling a little unclean and unworthy. One can never know, but such a change maes me think a woman may misinterpret the signals and take them personally. My husband was a pastors son and their way of dealing with their shortcomings is to throw themselves into thier religiosity, nothing to do with faith. LONG married in Oregon Men handle guilt differently than women. When I read this story, and outsider for sure, I was thinking Dale had an affair in Brazil and was feeling a little unclean and unworthy. One can never know, but such a change maes me think a woman may misinterpret the signals and take them personally. My husband was a pastors son and their way of dealing with their shortcomings is to throw themselves into thier religiosity, nothing to do with faith. LONG married in Oregon

]]> By: Bronwyn http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/comment-page-1/#comment-450 Bronwyn Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:42:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/#comment-450 Dale a better Christian than you? (or a Christian at all?) Pardon me while I laugh hysterically, then scream and throw things.<br/><br/>I am *so* glad I am not a Christian, and never have been, never will be, because of how so many have been deceived and trapped this way. Dale a better Christian than you? (or a Christian at all?) Pardon me while I laugh hysterically, then scream and throw things.

I am *so* glad I am not a Christian, and never have been, never will be, because of how so many have been deceived and trapped this way.

]]> By: Anonymous http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/comment-page-1/#comment-449 Anonymous Fri, 27 Mar 2009 05:06:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/#comment-449 Found your blog through a link posted in the Alternet threads. I had suspected that this "relationship with God" idea was unhealthy. I've heard this before (from my parents). I remember hearing as a child about "making God the first person in your life". Even then as a wee lad I remember thinking to myself that making God the first person in your life means that your children (which was me!) was lucky to get third place after God first, husband/wife second. It's all very sad, made sadder since God's don't exist. Putting a non-existing deity first place in your life. WOW. There are lots of weird ideas out there, and I'm glad you are finding your way out.<br/><br/>dboy Found your blog through a link posted in the Alternet threads. I had suspected that this “relationship with God” idea was unhealthy. I’ve heard this before (from my parents). I remember hearing as a child about “making God the first person in your life”. Even then as a wee lad I remember thinking to myself that making God the first person in your life means that your children (which was me!) was lucky to get third place after God first, husband/wife second. It’s all very sad, made sadder since God’s don’t exist. Putting a non-existing deity first place in your life. WOW. There are lots of weird ideas out there, and I’m glad you are finding your way out.

dboy

]]> By: Anonymous http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/comment-page-1/#comment-448 Anonymous Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:38:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/#comment-448 Hi,<br/>I've been following the blog with great interest, and I just want to say that the strength of both of you amazes me. I don't know that I would ever have the ability to escape this kind of situation if I wound up in it. <br/>This particular entry saddens me a great deal. I'm an atheist and people tell me all the time, "Fine for you, maybe, but what about the people who need God in their lives for support? Why would you try to take that away from them?" Your stories only go to show that religion can generate as much suffering as it relieves, trap as many as it saves. Thank you for sharing it with us. Hi,
I’ve been following the blog with great interest, and I just want to say that the strength of both of you amazes me. I don’t know that I would ever have the ability to escape this kind of situation if I wound up in it.
This particular entry saddens me a great deal. I’m an atheist and people tell me all the time, “Fine for you, maybe, but what about the people who need God in their lives for support? Why would you try to take that away from them?” Your stories only go to show that religion can generate as much suffering as it relieves, trap as many as it saves. Thank you for sharing it with us.

]]> By: Anonymous http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/comment-page-1/#comment-447 Anonymous Sun, 22 Mar 2009 23:42:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/#comment-447 I guess I'm not surprised by Dale's behavior, whether it was spurred on by a romantic involvement or was just a mid life crisis. The problem is that Dale, like a lot of religious people, was used to pushing off his own interests, ideas, and motivations on g-d and using his hot line to g-d to legitimate his own desires, or to enforce them on his wife and children. Dale's g-d was interested in Dale and what he wanted, not in Laura and what she wanted, or the kids, or the religious community. <br/><br/>As David in CO. said, blessings to you for having the strength of will to begin building a new life. Not only because its the right thing to do for you but because you are going to serve as a beacon to your children and to other men and women who are struggling in relationships that are destroying them, tying them down, or otherwise diminishing them. Dale needed to appeal to g-d but it sounds like you eventually found the strength inside yourself to see, to think, to decide, to act.<br/><br/>aimai I guess I’m not surprised by Dale’s behavior, whether it was spurred on by a romantic involvement or was just a mid life crisis. The problem is that Dale, like a lot of religious people, was used to pushing off his own interests, ideas, and motivations on g-d and using his hot line to g-d to legitimate his own desires, or to enforce them on his wife and children. Dale’s g-d was interested in Dale and what he wanted, not in Laura and what she wanted, or the kids, or the religious community.

As David in CO. said, blessings to you for having the strength of will to begin building a new life. Not only because its the right thing to do for you but because you are going to serve as a beacon to your children and to other men and women who are struggling in relationships that are destroying them, tying them down, or otherwise diminishing them. Dale needed to appeal to g-d but it sounds like you eventually found the strength inside yourself to see, to think, to decide, to act.

aimai

]]> By: Arietty http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/comment-page-1/#comment-446 Arietty Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:00:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/#comment-446 It sounded to me like Dale might have been very depressed but using all his negative feelings as the voice from God.. after all depression is often seen as failure by christians (even if they won't say that clearly) but the voice of God is always a success, LOL.<br/><br/>David Dye the lack of support is not limited to quiverfull oriented churches. Almost always it is the woman who is talked to, asked to change, etc.. I was told by my very mainstream church that my husband was "stressed" and I needed to be better at everything basically, to help him. This was the response to my talking out about never ending 24 hour a day anger on his part. Just have a glance at marriage books for christians, 90% of them are aimed at women and women are the ones that read them. It is much easier to tell a woman she should be more submissive, more loving, more supportive than it is to confront a man who may be angry, lying, volatile. Also the church leaders may view the man as one of them and have some bonds of church-work and friendship with him so that would really be a confrontation that affected them personally. Much easier to counsel the woman to stick to it and here dear, read this book. In some cases the behavior the woman has to deal with is eerily close to the behavior the leaders of the church know they mete out in their own homes, so you won't get anywhere there.<br/><br/>I was so frustrated when I left my abusive marriage because I found that "the world", ie regular non-christian people immediately understood that abuse is bad, leaving is better for the children. The church just did not get this. They couldn't understand these basic truths. They were so obsessed with marriage being some all-sacred deity that must be appeased at all costs. It sounded to me like Dale might have been very depressed but using all his negative feelings as the voice from God.. after all depression is often seen as failure by christians (even if they won’t say that clearly) but the voice of God is always a success, LOL.

David Dye the lack of support is not limited to quiverfull oriented churches. Almost always it is the woman who is talked to, asked to change, etc.. I was told by my very mainstream church that my husband was “stressed” and I needed to be better at everything basically, to help him. This was the response to my talking out about never ending 24 hour a day anger on his part. Just have a glance at marriage books for christians, 90% of them are aimed at women and women are the ones that read them. It is much easier to tell a woman she should be more submissive, more loving, more supportive than it is to confront a man who may be angry, lying, volatile. Also the church leaders may view the man as one of them and have some bonds of church-work and friendship with him so that would really be a confrontation that affected them personally. Much easier to counsel the woman to stick to it and here dear, read this book. In some cases the behavior the woman has to deal with is eerily close to the behavior the leaders of the church know they mete out in their own homes, so you won’t get anywhere there.

I was so frustrated when I left my abusive marriage because I found that “the world”, ie regular non-christian people immediately understood that abuse is bad, leaving is better for the children. The church just did not get this. They couldn’t understand these basic truths. They were so obsessed with marriage being some all-sacred deity that must be appeased at all costs.

]]> By: David Dye http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/comment-page-1/#comment-445 David Dye Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:30:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/#comment-445 Wow, what a powerful, and painful, story.<br/><br/>I'm stunned by Dale's behavior, but more so by the lack of help from your church and community. As strange and cultic as the quiverfull community appears to be (at least to someone outside like me) what does seem consistent is a commitment to the sanctity of the marriage bond. You mentioned your former pastor supporting you (at least morally - though some action would have been helpful) but what about your current one? Where was he?<br/><br/>What about the other families? Why didn't one of the other men take him aside and tell him to stop this nonsense and get his priorities in order? I think that bothers me the most about your story (and perhaps the quiverful movement altogether) that people who supposedly have strong convictions about marriage and family will stand idly by while the "head" of one of them abandons his wife and children for months, then announces "god" is calling him to something that doesn't include his wife.<br/><br/>If there wasn't something going on with the girl in Brazil, then I think your ex husband might have been mentally unbalanced. I had a business partner who started acting much like Dale did and he ended up being diagnosed with a mild form of Bi-Polar disorder.<br/><br/>Anyway, blessings to you as you now begin to build again. I trust that your new husband is a good man who cherishes you. You deserve that and more. If he even begins to treat you like your ex did, let me know and I'll be glad to come up there and set him straight!<br/><br/>David in CO Wow, what a powerful, and painful, story.

I’m stunned by Dale’s behavior, but more so by the lack of help from your church and community. As strange and cultic as the quiverfull community appears to be (at least to someone outside like me) what does seem consistent is a commitment to the sanctity of the marriage bond. You mentioned your former pastor supporting you (at least morally – though some action would have been helpful) but what about your current one? Where was he?

What about the other families? Why didn’t one of the other men take him aside and tell him to stop this nonsense and get his priorities in order? I think that bothers me the most about your story (and perhaps the quiverful movement altogether) that people who supposedly have strong convictions about marriage and family will stand idly by while the “head” of one of them abandons his wife and children for months, then announces “god” is calling him to something that doesn’t include his wife.

If there wasn’t something going on with the girl in Brazil, then I think your ex husband might have been mentally unbalanced. I had a business partner who started acting much like Dale did and he ended up being diagnosed with a mild form of Bi-Polar disorder.

Anyway, blessings to you as you now begin to build again. I trust that your new husband is a good man who cherishes you. You deserve that and more. If he even begins to treat you like your ex did, let me know and I’ll be glad to come up there and set him straight!

David in CO

]]> By: Anonymous http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/comment-page-1/#comment-444 Anonymous Sun, 22 Mar 2009 08:43:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/#comment-444 It sounds to me like Dale's plans involved something a tad less lofty and ethereal than "knowing God better", and something more concrete involving the region below his belt buckle. The trip to Brazil sounds like it was a very thinly veiled excuse to start an affair with the pretty exchange student. At the point when he decided to make that trip, he had essentially already left the marriage. <br/><br/>His actions after he got back were those of a person who wanted out very badly. However, he didn't have the guts to divorce you, or maybe he just didn't want to have to pay child support on umpty jillion kids. Maybe in a passive-aggressive fashion he was trying to make you so miserable you'd leave him, so he could blame you for the failure of the marriage. "I was willing to stay with her, but she left me!"<br/><br/>In the meantime, he tried to rationalize his actions and feelings by throwing crap at you. "God gave me this revelation, and it doesn't include you." "Followers of Jesus are supposed to hate their relatives/wives and follow Christ." How are you supposed to argue with God (supposedly) giving a person a revelation or argue with scripture?<br/><br/>Funny how pastors and the like can't offer wives much support or advice than to "keep on keeping on" when they're de facto getting the crap abused out of them. Thank goodness you had the sense to get out of that situation! It sounds to me like Dale’s plans involved something a tad less lofty and ethereal than “knowing God better”, and something more concrete involving the region below his belt buckle. The trip to Brazil sounds like it was a very thinly veiled excuse to start an affair with the pretty exchange student. At the point when he decided to make that trip, he had essentially already left the marriage.

His actions after he got back were those of a person who wanted out very badly. However, he didn’t have the guts to divorce you, or maybe he just didn’t want to have to pay child support on umpty jillion kids. Maybe in a passive-aggressive fashion he was trying to make you so miserable you’d leave him, so he could blame you for the failure of the marriage. “I was willing to stay with her, but she left me!”

In the meantime, he tried to rationalize his actions and feelings by throwing crap at you. “God gave me this revelation, and it doesn’t include you.” “Followers of Jesus are supposed to hate their relatives/wives and follow Christ.” How are you supposed to argue with God (supposedly) giving a person a revelation or argue with scripture?

Funny how pastors and the like can’t offer wives much support or advice than to “keep on keeping on” when they’re de facto getting the crap abused out of them. Thank goodness you had the sense to get out of that situation!

]]> By: Angel Renee http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/comment-page-1/#comment-443 Angel Renee Sun, 22 Mar 2009 05:20:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/22/an-affair-with-god/#comment-443 I'm so sorry, Laura. This story makes me cry. I’m so sorry, Laura. This story makes me cry.

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