Comments on: The Amazing Bosch Universal Mixer http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/ There Is No 'You' In Quivering ... Thu, 17 May 2012 00:53:03 +0000 hourly 1 By: 10 Lies I Believed About “Worldly Parents” ~ AKA, You! « No Longer Quivering http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/comment-page-1/#comment-2725 10 Lies I Believed About “Worldly Parents” ~ AKA, You! « No Longer Quivering Mon, 31 May 2010 20:38:40 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/#comment-2725 [...] Worldly mothers are clueless about nutrition and growing healthy bodies ~ that is why they only feed their kids [...] [...] Worldly mothers are clueless about nutrition and growing healthy bodies ~ that is why they only feed their kids [...]

]]> By: Vyckie http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/comment-page-1/#comment-742 Vyckie Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:24:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/#comment-742 Note to "youngest chick" and "SD in Oregon" ~ please follow the link in the above post where this thread is being continued. We have closed comments to this thread here on the blog ~ but would love to hear from you over at the NLQ forums. Thanks! Note to “youngest chick” and “SD in Oregon” ~ please follow the link in the above post where this thread is being continued. We have closed comments to this thread here on the blog ~ but would love to hear from you over at the NLQ forums. Thanks!

]]> By: Vyckie http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/comment-page-1/#comment-741 Vyckie Thu, 16 Apr 2009 04:21:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/#comment-741 The discussion for this post has been moved over to our new NLQ forums: <a HREF="http://nolongerquivering.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=boschmixer" REL="nofollow">http://nolongerquivering.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=boschmixer</a>No further comments on this post will be accepted here ~ please go to the forums. Thank you ;-) The discussion for this post has been moved over to our new NLQ forums: http://nolongerquivering.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=boschmixerNo further comments on this post will be accepted here ~ please go to the forums. Thank you ;-)

]]> By: Wendy http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/comment-page-1/#comment-740 Wendy Sun, 12 Apr 2009 13:30:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/#comment-740 Laura, I think your ex wanted your youngest daughter to learn something, all right--but not how to make bread. What a powerful message it was for your daughters to see you toil day after day.<br/><br/>BTW, if I had lived a lifestyle with such unhealthy boundaries, I imagine I would struggle to find balance in freedom. I think you guys are doing great. Laura, I think your ex wanted your youngest daughter to learn something, all right–but not how to make bread. What a powerful message it was for your daughters to see you toil day after day.

BTW, if I had lived a lifestyle with such unhealthy boundaries, I imagine I would struggle to find balance in freedom. I think you guys are doing great.

]]> By: Wendy http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/comment-page-1/#comment-743 Wendy Sun, 12 Apr 2009 13:30:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/#comment-743 Laura, I think your ex wanted your youngest daughter to learn something, all right--but not how to make bread. What a powerful message it was for your daughters to see you toil day after day.<br/><br/>BTW, if I had lived a lifestyle with such unhealthy boundaries, I imagine I would struggle to find balance in freedom. I think you guys are doing great. Laura, I think your ex wanted your youngest daughter to learn something, all right–but not how to make bread. What a powerful message it was for your daughters to see you toil day after day.

BTW, if I had lived a lifestyle with such unhealthy boundaries, I imagine I would struggle to find balance in freedom. I think you guys are doing great.

]]> By: Anonymous http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/comment-page-1/#comment-739 Anonymous Tue, 07 Apr 2009 12:54:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/#comment-739 Laura, <br/><br/>This story broke my heart. I could picture you crying in your kitchen and tears falling into that big silver bowl. It is so hard to comprehend why your husband would do that. <br/><br/>So many times I've heard about a "woman's place" and being "submissive" taken to the extreme. It is really funny that many of these same men who are talking about it, never talk that much about the verse that tells men to love their wives as Christ loved the church. He should have been willing to give his life for you; letting you receive a mixer would have been a small thing.<br/><br/>You are in my heart,<br/>Elizabeth C Laura,

This story broke my heart. I could picture you crying in your kitchen and tears falling into that big silver bowl. It is so hard to comprehend why your husband would do that.

So many times I’ve heard about a “woman’s place” and being “submissive” taken to the extreme. It is really funny that many of these same men who are talking about it, never talk that much about the verse that tells men to love their wives as Christ loved the church. He should have been willing to give his life for you; letting you receive a mixer would have been a small thing.

You are in my heart,
Elizabeth C

]]> By: Charis http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/comment-page-1/#comment-738 Charis Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:31:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/#comment-738 There is a book which warrants mention on this thread because it describes just such micromanagement and control. This is not an expressly "christian book" though the author has a Christ-like respect for women and recognition of the plight of those of us trapped in such a spirit killing paradigm.<br/><br/>If one translates the technical jargon in this description of abuse into biblical language, it sounds very much like a real life description of “your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you” Genesis 3:16<br/><br/>As a fundamentalist Christian woman in recovery from a fatal marriage killing MIS-understanding of biblical submission, I identify very much with the lifestyle described here:<br/><br/><a HREF="http://books.google.com/books?id=rm8CPqTiDWMC&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=coercive+control+evan+stark+entrapment+of+women+in+personal+life+is+also+hard+to+discern&source=bl&ots=bZCgeKOB4x&sig=gybkcJPWbysdkrp26B-KVuvsua8&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result" REL="nofollow">Coercive control: the entrapment of women in personal life</a> by Evan Stark There is a book which warrants mention on this thread because it describes just such micromanagement and control. This is not an expressly “christian book” though the author has a Christ-like respect for women and recognition of the plight of those of us trapped in such a spirit killing paradigm.

If one translates the technical jargon in this description of abuse into biblical language, it sounds very much like a real life description of “your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you” Genesis 3:16

As a fundamentalist Christian woman in recovery from a fatal marriage killing MIS-understanding of biblical submission, I identify very much with the lifestyle described here:

Coercive control: the entrapment of women in personal life by Evan Stark

]]> By: aimai http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/comment-page-1/#comment-737 aimai Wed, 01 Apr 2009 19:56:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/#comment-737 Wow,<br/>What a great "volley" of comments on this topic. I don't see one of my more recent posts here on this topic but thanks to Charis (I think) and others posting about the book "Why Does He do That?" by Lundy something or other I went over to Amazon to have a look at the reviews. I think now that although these issues don't apply in my marriage (thank the not g-d in whom I don't believe!) that this book might be a very important one for every woman to have on her shelf to share with her daughters. I would also recommend "the gift of fear." Because from reading the 209 positive reviews of the book its pretty clear that a lot of women, of every faith and age and background, have found themselves slowly moving down a garden path with a guy who is attractive, wounded, fun to be with, loving and, in the end, abusive. And that can take many forms--from within a patriarchal/quiverful model that insists on lots of kids to a small family or couples only model where the guy isolates you from family and children. I have two daughters and I think this book might be good to have around for when they start dating. Several of the commenters over at Amazon talked about the importance of seeing a written version of the life they'd been secretly leading before they could acknowledge how painful and crazy it was.<br/><br/>aimai Wow,
What a great “volley” of comments on this topic. I don’t see one of my more recent posts here on this topic but thanks to Charis (I think) and others posting about the book “Why Does He do That?” by Lundy something or other I went over to Amazon to have a look at the reviews. I think now that although these issues don’t apply in my marriage (thank the not g-d in whom I don’t believe!) that this book might be a very important one for every woman to have on her shelf to share with her daughters. I would also recommend “the gift of fear.” Because from reading the 209 positive reviews of the book its pretty clear that a lot of women, of every faith and age and background, have found themselves slowly moving down a garden path with a guy who is attractive, wounded, fun to be with, loving and, in the end, abusive. And that can take many forms–from within a patriarchal/quiverful model that insists on lots of kids to a small family or couples only model where the guy isolates you from family and children. I have two daughters and I think this book might be good to have around for when they start dating. Several of the commenters over at Amazon talked about the importance of seeing a written version of the life they’d been secretly leading before they could acknowledge how painful and crazy it was.

aimai

]]> By: Linnea http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/comment-page-1/#comment-736 Linnea Wed, 01 Apr 2009 19:23:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/#comment-736 Molly (adventuresinmercy) writes:<br/><br/><i>I'm currently trying to figure out if I can "do" this marriage now that I am firmly outside of the paradigm, now that I have knowledge about his mental state (for so long I thought *I* must be the crazy one, life with him was so confusing) and now that he is on medication and going through the various appropriate counseling, etc, and claiming that he will do anything...</i><br/><br/>I think an important question to ask is, is *he* outside the paradigm, or does he think that if he just gets rid of the craziness, it's still his place to be the top dog? If he still believes in patriarchy and you don't, it's going to be very hard to work things out.<br/><br/>Much more to say, but little time - hugs to all. Molly (adventuresinmercy) writes:

I’m currently trying to figure out if I can “do” this marriage now that I am firmly outside of the paradigm, now that I have knowledge about his mental state (for so long I thought *I* must be the crazy one, life with him was so confusing) and now that he is on medication and going through the various appropriate counseling, etc, and claiming that he will do anything…

I think an important question to ask is, is *he* outside the paradigm, or does he think that if he just gets rid of the craziness, it’s still his place to be the top dog? If he still believes in patriarchy and you don’t, it’s going to be very hard to work things out.

Much more to say, but little time – hugs to all.

]]> By: Charis http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/comment-page-1/#comment-735 Charis Tue, 31 Mar 2009 12:38:00 +0000 http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/27/the-amazing-bosch-universal-mixer/#comment-735 Linnea,<br/><br/>Good post! :)<br/><br/>In my case, I don't think being older would have made any difference (I married at 23). I think I was destined to choose someone with "issues" because of being raised in an abusive alcoholic home. My two sisters married alcoholic/drug addicts and have had serious marriage difficulties- though we are all still married except my brother (who was abusive to his wife).<br/><br/>That said, I really see that I enabled my husband. If I had been firmer with him about unacceptable behaviors, control issues, and boundary violations (as you are firm with your husband), they wouldn't have continued for decades. At that point, they are so habitual that changing involves enormous upheaval. It has taken the past 4-5 years of our 27 year marriage to cleanse from old bad way of doing marriage and develop a consistently healthier dynamic.<br/><br/>You said: <i>Now, if we had a worldview that said that he was supposed to be in charge and I was supposed to follow his lead, it would be a disaster.</i> ENDQUOTE<br/><br/>I totally agree. Nor do I think this worldview/doctrine can be blamed on God. Its a human twisting of God's intentions. It robs a wife of power to be the strong help (ezer/help meet in Gen 2:18) God intends. It really short-changes not just the wife and children, but the husband who needs a strong wife who will stand up to him when he has these "issues". Linnea,

Good post! :)

In my case, I don’t think being older would have made any difference (I married at 23). I think I was destined to choose someone with “issues” because of being raised in an abusive alcoholic home. My two sisters married alcoholic/drug addicts and have had serious marriage difficulties- though we are all still married except my brother (who was abusive to his wife).

That said, I really see that I enabled my husband. If I had been firmer with him about unacceptable behaviors, control issues, and boundary violations (as you are firm with your husband), they wouldn’t have continued for decades. At that point, they are so habitual that changing involves enormous upheaval. It has taken the past 4-5 years of our 27 year marriage to cleanse from old bad way of doing marriage and develop a consistently healthier dynamic.

You said: Now, if we had a worldview that said that he was supposed to be in charge and I was supposed to follow his lead, it would be a disaster. ENDQUOTE

I totally agree. Nor do I think this worldview/doctrine can be blamed on God. Its a human twisting of God’s intentions. It robs a wife of power to be the strong help (ezer/help meet in Gen 2:18) God intends. It really short-changes not just the wife and children, but the husband who needs a strong wife who will stand up to him when he has these “issues”.

]]>