Kristin

Wordgazer, I’ll get a good night’s sleep and then I’ll maybe try to explain where that “no, your god IS a monster” sentiment comes from. but it’s 3am now, so brain no worky. :-p

I signed off, took my shower, and was ready to go to bed when I remembered that I forgot two other Christian places that speak out against abuse.

~Emotional Abuse and Your Faith (eaandfaith.blogsmpot.com)
~Because It Matters~Freedom in Christianity (dannimoss.wordpress.com)

Plus both Charis of A Wife’s Submission and Molly of Adventures In Mercy speak out. They are posting here so you can get to there blogs by clicking their names.

Not trying to overwhelm you at all. Still haven’t mentioned every place I know yet.
Only want to communicate that there are Christians who know that your concerns are very real and we share them. And ‘they’ will pretty much have to kill us to get us to shut up at this point.

Keep on talking JadeHawk. We have a common enemy. Those who view women and children as things to be used.

Mara
Who needs to get off this computer and go to bed. G’nite.

Hi, Wordgazer. I think I’ve seen you elsewhere. Too tired to remember where.
Toodles.

Where did this happen to the 9 year old girl?
In the states?
That’s horrifying.

There are others who speak out.
~Have you heard of StopBaptistPredators.org?
~How about the Grace and Truth to You blog by Wade Burleson?
~White Washed Feminists?
~The TrueWomanhood blog? (Not to be confused with the stupid Manifesto put out by the patriarchy bunch. I mention this one esp. since it has Athiests visit who feel comfortable their because even though it is Christian, it is not judgemental toward Athiests. Plus a lot of the gals there have been influenced by Patriarchy one way or another, hate it and are very verbal about it.)
Only to name a few.

There are many who have plain had enough and speak out.

My little church is in a rural setting. It is not liberal. But neither is it at all touched by Quiverfull/Patriarchy garbage, for which I’m thankful.
They are interested in helping people, not bossing people.
And I love them for that.

Mara

But I agree that their reasons for such lumping are different– and you are probably right that most atheists don’t do it from literalism, but more that they simply dismiss God as just a superstition of a superstitious culture.

But the end result is still pretty much the same. It is my view that in order to properly understand the concept of God as understood by serious Christian thought, it must be understood that no human conception of God (including those of ancient cultures)is going to come close to what God really is.

KR Wordgazer

Mara, I’m very glad to hear you’re outspoken on this issue. I think it is VERY important that truly liberal churches speak out and cut themselves loose from those who abuse people. I’m especially frustrated with Catholics: my mom is one, and she lives in Germany where people pay taxes TO their church. and she’s refusing to stop paying that tax (there’s ways to get yourself off the taxroll) because she considers the Catholic Church to be a charity. in truth, they do SO much harm! I even pointed out to her the case of that poor 9-year-old girl who was raped and pregnant with twins… her mother and doctors were excommunicated for saving her live with an abortion (twins just don’t FIT into a scrawny 9-year-old body), while the father who did that to her was protected by the church!!!!

Christians must really speak out loudly if they don’t want to be tossed into he same pot as the abusers and haters, because otherwise they give those people “safety in numbers”

Hi JadeHawk.
I don’t have anything particular to say to you on this quote above except that it is an excellent one that I may use as an example of why people are leaving churches.

I still embrace my faith in the God of the Bible but I’m also extremely exasperated with abuses on both sides as you are.

In my own church they can count on me to bring up the abused in discusion, and I mean those abused in or by those calling themselves Christian, either directly or by being purposefully blind to it.

I’m glad to have quotes like the one above and thank you for your honesty.

Mara

Indigo, as you can see from Jadehawk’s response to mine, Jadehawk and I are using the word “reject” in the sense of “to not embrace an idea or proposition,” and not in any emotional or accusing sense, to imply anything negative against atheism or atheists. We are also, in the context of our conversation, discussing the Bible as a religious/moral text, and the rejection of it in that sense and not in any other.

I agree that if you take my words the way you seem to be taking them, they do seem ridiculous. But I quite honestly had no intention of disparaging atheism as a viewpoint or atheists as people. I respect both.

KR Wordgazer (who signed into Google using another blog, after this one stopped letting me post as “Anonmyous” either . . sigh. . .)

let’s compare: in greek mythology, prometheus steals fire from the gods and gives it to humans so they can help themselves. he is a hero.
in the bible, the serpent gives Adam and Eve a conscience. he’s the “enemy” ever since.

the rejection of god follows from the rejection of the bible as in any way useful or meaningful beyond literary studies, anthropology and archaeology.