Comments on: It’s about SUPERSTITION

By: Laura

Laura — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:40:00 +0000

Dear LotusGeek,
First off, thank you so much for your posts here. It’s nice to hear from a supportive man. Second, yes, Vyckie and I are in process of reading “The Dance of the Dissident Daughter” and it has been very interesting for us. I had heard of Sue Monk Kidd in the world of Christian writing but was unaware of her”awakening”. Thanks for reading here and posting your thoughts. It’s appreciated.

By: W. Lotus

W. Lotus — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 05:32:00 +0000

Have either of you read “Dance of the Dissident Daughter” by Sue Monk Kidd? That book is a memoir of her growth out of the Southern Baptist tradition and into a spirituality that embraces the divine feminine. It was a path she started on when she finally got fed up of patriarchy. That book gave me the courage to finally start asking the questions I had suppressed my entire life about patriarchy and misogyny in Christiandom!

By: Charis

Charis — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 00:58:00 +0000

Speaking of books, I have not read the whole book, but a trusted online friend recommends this one. If one translates the technical jargon in this description of abuse into biblical language, it sounds very much like a real life description of “your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you” Genesis 3:16

As a fundamentalist Christian woman in recovery from a fatal marriage killing MIS-understanding of biblical submission, I identify very much with the lifestyle described here:

Coercive control: the entrapment of women in personal life by Evan Stark

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 23:34:00 +0000

Tat!Anon again!

Arietty: in that case, I will bother neither with sympathy nor pity and go straight to disdain for him. XD

The people I was raised with were at least raised in that mindset, so I have to think of them as just as affected as I was.

By: Jadehawk

Jadehawk — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:54:00 +0000

LotusGeek, the reason they use OT so much is because a lot of fundies have an all-or-nothing stance on the bible. keep in mind that a subset of that group thinks the KJV is the only divinely inspired version of the bible! basically, the thinking goes: if it’s in the bible, it’s relevant, or else god wouldn’t have put it there in the first place.

By: Arietty

Arietty — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:35:00 +0000

The dynamic in my marriage was this: you never asked for anything directly because the answer was always "No". In my husband's mind if I or the children asked for something and he said yes then he would have lost and we would have won. Every single exchange was a power struggle to him in which he must come out on top. When the kids were teenagers post-divorce he would never answer a direct question but put them off by telling them he would get back to them. This is for the simplest, most obvious things. Then he would call them and tell them his answer. That way HE was telling YOU what was happening, so he had won. If he had actually answered a question then he would be giving you what you had demanded so he would have lost.

This dynamic existed in all his relationships. I wish I had a recording of our property settlement in court because this is how behaved to the judge, taking it to heights of ridiculousness. He came across as raving, controlling and incredibly petty.

I don't blame it on patriarchy because he was like that long before any church entered his life. Patriarchy just anointed his actions and could now call them headship. Mentally for all of us it was incredibly exhausting.

By: adventuresinmercy

adventuresinmercy — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:01:00 +0000

“Sorry, but it pisses me off when people take advantage of others by bending some arcane text to suit their needs and play on their superstitions. Hell, even I can appreciate much of what Jesus taught, but I see so, so few so-called xians living – [i]truly[/i] living – to those ideals (love, charity, forgiveness, modesty, understanding, etc.)” –Rock/LotusGeek

YES.

This is what happened to me about 4 years ago now, the beginning of what ended up being a full deconstruction of the *kind* of Christianity I’d been taught and embraced, and a rebuilding of a Christianity that was actually based on (heh, strangest thing) CHRIST.

What was fascinating, especially looking back (at the time it was flat-out fear inducing, as if I didn’t have enough fears of my own already) was the reaction from those in the first camp and my husband. It made a difficult thing even worse.

I cannot believe what emphasis I (and those who taught me) put on superflous outward things and how LITTLE emphasis was put on the actual meat of what Christ taught: love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, kindness, humbleness…

Instead, it was refashioned, all twisted up and ruined into things like, “As a woman, your *role* is to be patient and kind toward your husband, putting up with pretty much any and everything he will do to you without losing your God-honoring smile…”

I would later wonder how it was I could read the Bible and miss what was so glaringly obvious. Sheesh, the whole point of Christ coming was because performance-based relationships DID NOT and WOULD NOT work. Yet there I was, a busy little bee, performing, performing, performing (and teaching others to do the same) all in His name.

It is really stupifying, looking backward, that I could have fallen into such an obvious trap…but, boy, when in the middle of it, it’s so foggy there that it’s really impossible to have any sort of clarity at all. You’re just glad when you can see your hand in front of your face.

…
Btw, I like what Charis has to say, too. She has been so helpful to me…and her book recommendations ROCK (I speak with experience-ha). It’s nice to have a fellow sister on this often-lonely path. I think that is why I am also addicted to this blog now. You all also “get it.” It’s nice to not be alone. Thanks for being such sweet company.

Warmly,
Molly

By: aimai

aimai — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 21:27:00 +0000

And in response to Rock, c'mon, you know, or ought to know, that its all "new testament for me and old testament for thee" out there. Or, to paraphrase a joke I saw on Yes, Prime Minister, "saved is an irregular verb"

I am saved
You may be saved
He is going to hell.

There can always be a prooftext found for any conclusion the individual wants to make. The question for the various sects and sub sects is "who shall rule? over the texts" (this of course is a paraphrase of Humpty Dumpty).

aimai

By: aimai

aimai — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 21:23:00 +0000

Kaderin,
You are so right! I had a brain blip. I meant to recommend Tanner’s “You Just Don’t Understand” which is also problematic on the gender sterotyping but is still quite intersting and a more respectable academic approach (though she had to gut it for a popular audience) to speech differences in this culture. I beg everyone’s pardon for referencing the wrong–oh so wrong, as Kaderin points out!–book.

aimai

By: Kaderin

Kaderin — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:53:00 +0000

You know, I recently saw a headline that said "Poll shows Christians are more likely to be superstitious" and my reaction was "...duh?"

Religion is basically one huge superstition, cemented with community and authority.

I am so sorry to read how being trapped in this dogmatic framework eroded your faith in yourselves and with it your abilities and even your mind. At the same time, I am filled with a sense of wonder that you managed to break through this vicious cicle of self-fulfilling prophecy after being immersed in the poinonous ideology for so long.

Aimai

Not to hijack the comment section or anything, but I just couldn't let your recommendation of "men are from mars, women are from venus" stand - the book is loaded with sexism, gender roles and male entitlement. Not something to read if one is trying to escape patriarchy.

There's a really good commentary site for the book. Anyone who's planning to read it or has read it should definitly take a look, if only to get a different point of view.

Rebuttal from Uranus