Posts from — November 2009
It’s Complicated: Why It Wasn’t as Obvious as It Seems Like It Should Have Been
by Journey
One thing I struggle with, as I painfully write some of the facts of my QF Patriarchal Marriage, is that the abuse wasn’t as obvious as you might think. I’d venture to say that 99.9% of the people we were around had no clue. I always get a kick out of how most patriarchy supporters speak up so quickly about how they are “opposed to abuse.” Are they really? Abuse always seems so stark, so obviously abusive, when you *read* about it, but in real life? Generally, not so much. For example, Mark’s abusive and strange behaviors are crystal clear, the way I’ve written the story for NLQ, but in real life, it wasn’t as easy as all that. I think that, in real life, it’s never like that.
In the story version, you get the play by play of abusive or flat-out weird behaviors, divorced from the people involved, divorced from all the nice moments, the normal-seeming times, the kind gestures and relational dynamics. In the real life version, the abusive behaviors are often experienced as tiny (usually completely private) bits of what seems to be an otherwise fairly normal life.
Are they small or tiny? No, not at all. They are earth-shattering, cataclysmic events that shape who you are in the relationship, and yet part of what makes them so confusing, part of what makes it so difficult to see them for what they are, is that they happen in the midst of many good things, and the earth-shattering parts happen in the deepest places of who you are, the kind of metaphorical bruises and broken bones that you can’t see, that you don’t even realize are there.
November 30, 2009 1 Comment
Daughter of the Patriarchy ~ Old-Girl in Young-Girl Disguise
by Sierra
“What did you think?” My mother asked, as our blue Chevrolet rolled smoothly out of the parking lot, mingling with more expensive cars on a fresh-paved freeway.
“I liked it,” responded seven-year-old I. “I actually listened.”
We were talking about our first visit to Anna and Sven’s church, an informal affair that gathered weekly in the upper annex of a suburban YMCA. The church had begun in the pastor’s living room, hosting only two or three families. Over the next few years it had grown to six or seven. The pastor and his wife had six children, the youngest still a newborn. They’d welcomed a new child every two years since their eldest.
Church wasn’t a new experience for me. I’d been christened in the Catholic Church my grandparents attended and carried along to various non-denominational meetings, ranging from an informal Bible study with a lone guitarist to a somewhat larger group of mild but friendly moderate Christians with a slightly aging pastor. My mother had been put off by the impersonal feeling of the Catholic mass – and so thoroughly terrified by the severity of the nuns at her Catholic school – that she sought instead a familial atmosphere, a place where God was personal and the congregation close.
November 25, 2009 No Comments
Vyckie’s Tour de Crap: The Elsie Books
This’ll be interesting. While cooped up in the three back rooms with Warren and all six kids during the remodeling project, I picked up one of Angel’s books, “Elsie Dinsmore” ~ just skimming through when something caught my attention and led to me reading the entire 8 book set. (More volumes have since been published.) I was seriously rolling my eyes the whole way through. I wrote this review and submitted it to Harvey & Laurie Bluedorn’s “Teaching the Trivium” discussion list for classical ed. homeschoolers.
The Elsie Books
The main problem I have with the Elsie books is the characters are all so unbelievable! Even the villains are basically good characters (Arthur Dinsmore was insistent that his younger brother, Walter, not follow in his destructive habits or associate with his corrupt companions).
And Elsie herself has got to be the most unrealistic character in any book which I have read. She’s absolutely beautiful (without makeup & with minimal adornment even past age 40 – she’s radiant), highly intelligent, talented in music & art and a good many other things, nearly perfect in her devotion to Jesus, incredibly rich, generous, unselfish … she never walks anywhere – she “glides”! She’s all that – and she’s humble too.
Imagine – on her 10th wedding anniversary (she’s had five children), she fits her wedding dress perfectly with no alterations! Having recently given birth to our sixth child, I was especially incredulous when I read that part.
November 22, 2009 No Comments
Vyckie’s Tour de Crap: Quiverfull and the Life of the Mother
The recent “Born to Breed” episode of “Secret Lives of Women” has attracted quite a bit of attention from practicing Quiverfull women ~ and several QF/P blogs are discussing my story and NLQ. I appreciate that quite a few of these blog commenters are giving thoughtful consideration to the message here.
But many others are insisting that my Quiverfull “conviction” was a burdensome form of legalism rather than a true calling from the Lord. It is frustrating to read their comments as these women dismiss my Quiverfull experience as irrelevant by concluding that what we were doing in our family was not the same heartfelt, Spirit-led decision based on our sincere love for the Lord and our desire to be open to His wisdom and guidance in this very personal area of our reproductive lives as what they are currently doing in their own families.
So ~ feeling a bit (okay, maybe a lot) defensive, I went and dug up a piece of writing from my “quivering days.” This one happens to fit in the timeline of where I’m at in my story ~ I wrote this shortly before I became pregnant with my 7th child, Wesley. While this started out as a personal letter to a friend, I later modified it for publication in several QF periodicals including “Unless The Lord Magazine.”
I’ll follow this one with a bit of commentary at the end:
Quiverfull and the Life of the Mother
A friend of mine (the local La Leche League leader) is under heavy conviction right now concerning the use of natural family planning. I can understand her hesitancy to completely give this area over to the Lord as she and her husband are only 21 and already have two children. Recently, “Katherine” posted a question on QuiverFull Digest (an Internet discussion group for families who are trusting the Lord with their “family planning”) which basically asked the question, “How far are we supposed to follow this ‘Quiverfull’ conviction? What if the life of the mother would be jeopardized by pregnancy – would it then be prudent to abstain during the woman’s fertile time? If so, where do we draw the line between being ‘good stewards’ and taking complete control over our reproduction?”
Dear Katherine,
I noticed your post on the QuiverFull Digest recently asking whether it’s acceptable to use birth control in a situation where the mother’s life is in danger. I did not want to respond to the Digest – but, for what it’s worth – here’s my take on that situation:
November 19, 2009 No Comments
“Go to Oregon and build an ark”
by Journey
Mark said we were going to move to Oregon. I didn’t want to move to Oregon (I hated the rain), and I told him so, but that didn’t matter. He had heard from God. More specifically, he had heard God tell him to, “Go to Oregon and build an ark.” What that meant, we did not know, but Mark had heard it quite clearly. I wasn’t about to argue with God. The strange thing was that Mark regularly mocked people who “heard from God” about things. He felt that spiritual gifts were generally abused, and that God didn’t speak as much as people thought He did. It bothered him how our mildly-charismatic church used spiritual gifts. He thought it was indecent and uncontrolled, that the use of spiritual gifts was dangerous because anybody could come in off the street and say that God said something. He prefered moderating the use of spiritual gifts and only allowing approved people and leaders to openly use them, if that. When Mark heard from God, though, we knew it was really God, because, well, it was Mark. Mark was amazing.
We moved to Oregon, driving there. It was actually a very fun drive. I had solely given my heart to Mark, and he knew it, and we had a wonderful time driving through the states. He shared with me many things that he’d never shared with anybody before, and I felt so special, like I was getting to see inside of this man of God’s heart. I was truly awed by how wise he was, and so thankful that I had made the godly choice to submit my will to his. At one point on the trip, we stayed for a week in the home of Mark’s old Bible College dean and his wife. There we watched the marital interactions between this professor and his wife, interactions where she had an opinion and wasn’t afraid to voice it. We discussed how sorry we felt for this man, that he had to put up with a wife who didn’t live to serve him—and what a greater man he could have been if only his wife had laid down her wants and desires and worked to please him only.
Mark shared with me that she was the perfect example of a, “hard woman.” To Mark, there was little that was worse than a hard women. Hard women weren’t soft and vulnerable. They had strong minds and strong opinions and they didn’t feel guilty about it or try to hide it. In the Bible, the word, “hard,” is used to describe the evil Pharoah’s heart, or the hearts of the Pharisees who would not listen to Christ, and so Mark’s definition was not lost on me. I knew that before I met Mark, I, too, was a hard woman, and I resolved to do my best to never be one again. The fun and light-heartedness we experienced as a married couple on our trip confirmed to me that I was obeying Mark to the glory of God. What a blessing God was shining on my marriage. He was showing me that I was on the right path.
November 17, 2009 No Comments
Patriarchy Across Cultures: What It’s Like To Sing The Blues
God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes
‘Cause then you really might know what it’s like to sing the blues–Everlast
Previously we had just received word that Mike’s mom had passed away. Mike wanted to go to her funeral but we were broke. We called his dad. It turned out he was nearby and he offered to take us to Chicago in his van. John said he felt bad for not being there while his son was growing up and that this was the least he could do. So we let Mike’s grandma Emma know we were on our way and drove off, all five of us crammed into their aging van, determined to make it to Chicago in three days, just in time for the services.
We headed up through Nevada to Highway 80 and followed it across country. During the final night of our trip, the van made an awful sound and came to a halt. Something in the front end had broken and needed to be replaced. We were in Iowa, near Amana, and we had AAA service but everything was closed. We wouldn’t be able to even start repairs until the following day. Mike decided to hitchhike. He caught a ride with a semi driver a short while later and was on his way. He missed the funeral but arrived at the cemetery in time for the burial.
November 15, 2009 No Comments
NLQ FAQ: Does Patriarchy Glorify God?
by Kristen Rosser ~ aka: KR Wordgazer
Q: As a Quiverfull couple, we practice headship and submission to strengthen our marriage and bring glory to God. But you are saying that Patriarchy hurts the husband and belittles God. Please explain.
What does “glorify” mean when we’re talking about God? A simple definition can be found in what we commonly mean when we say a person is “seeking glory.” It means that person wants the credit for good things that have happened, and to be honored for those things. To glorify God is to seek glory not for ourselves, but for God– to act in ways that point to God, that give God the credit for good things in our lives and the honor that comes from that.
God receives glory when there are good things in our moral character that give Him credit. Jesus said, “By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” John 13:35. 1 Peter 2:12 says, “Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles, that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.”
Ways of life that glorify God should result in honor and credit to Him, both in our lives with others, and in our relationship with Him.
When it comes to our lives with others, it seems clear that if the Bible really teaches and promotes patriarchy– rather than patriarchy simply being an assumption of the cultures of Bible times, reflected but not promoted in the Bible– then following patriarchal roles of male authority and female submission ought to result in the growth of love and moral character in the lives of men and women and in their relationships to one another. And a patriarchal marriage relationship ought to be the prime place where this takes place.
But is it?
November 14, 2009 1 Comment
Patriarchy Acoss Cultures: From Generation to Generation
by Tapati
Grandpa Glen and Grandma Velma Tallman
My mother sounds like a horrible person as I write about her blocking my efforts to leave home, hitting me, and subsiding into depression and suicide. Of course there remains a stigma associated with mental illness and it’s difficult for most people to find compassion for people who act out when their illness is poorly managed. In the 1970s there weren’t any really good anti-depressants on the market and the ones offered to my mom came with some hefty side effects. Psychotherapy also wasn’t as sophisticated. I wonder how she would have responded to modern therapies but I can never know.
Mom didn’t develop her illness in a vacuum. There is a genetic component and childhood abuse and neglect involved. I couldn’t say exactly how far back these behaviors go. I know Mom was physically abused by her father, Glen Tallman, to the point of drawing blood during a beating with a shoe. I know that he himself showed signs of severe depression in later years. I know that my own beloved Grandpa, Jerry Hull, was accused by both Mom and Aunt Virginia of trying to molest them from the time he became their stepfather, when they were just 11 and 9, respectively. I also know that my mom forever felt unloved by Grandma, and I observed the relentless criticism and scornful comments both to her face and behind her back. I’ve suspected that Grandma similarly felt she never got her own mother’s full approval.
November 12, 2009 No Comments
“Born to Breed” to air Tuesday, November 10 on WETV
The Tuesday, Nov. 10th episode of “Secret Lives of Women” will feature the Quiverfull movement ~ including my “No Longer Quivering” story.
The program, which is titled, “Born to Breed,” will air at 9 pm central time on WETV.
November 8, 2009 No Comments
Rachel Scott ~ the two-headed lady …
Rachel Scott on WETV’s “Born to Breed”: Well, my husband is in charge … and I do believe in women submitting to men …
Rachel Scott on the Joy Behar Show: I believe that my husband and I have an equal partnership. But in matters of dispute, I would say that the two of us make decisions pretty much together as team. So I think submission is misunderstood.
BEHAR: So it’s not the total patriarchy that it’s painted – as in the film piece that I saw.
SCOTT: I don’t believe that is total accurate depiction of Quiverfull actually, so, no.
November 8, 2009 No Comments
