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	<title>Comments on: Steadfast Daughters in a Quivering World ~ Part 3: Perception</title>
	<atom:link href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/12/09/quivering-daughters-in-a-steadfast-world-part-3-perception/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/12/09/quivering-daughters-in-a-steadfast-world-part-3-perception/</link>
	<description>There Is No &#039;You&#039; In Quivering ...</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 13:56:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Headless Unicorn Guy</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/12/09/quivering-daughters-in-a-steadfast-world-part-3-perception/comment-page-1/#comment-8777</link>
		<dc:creator>Headless Unicorn Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Feb 2011 21:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=9743#comment-8777</guid>
		<description>Not so odd.

Just as Communism begat Objectivism, an extremely destructive victimization often causes a reaction just as intense (and destructive) but flipped one-eighty in the opposite direction.

&quot;The Devil sends sins in matched opposing pairs, so that in fleeing one we embrace the other.&quot; -- either C.S.Lewis or G.K.Chesterton

&quot;When a drunk falls off his donkey and climbs back on, often as not he&#039;ll fall right off on the other side.&quot; -- attributed to Martin Luther</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not so odd.</p>
<p>Just as Communism begat Objectivism, an extremely destructive victimization often causes a reaction just as intense (and destructive) but flipped one-eighty in the opposite direction.</p>
<p>&#8220;The Devil sends sins in matched opposing pairs, so that in fleeing one we embrace the other.&#8221; &#8212; either C.S.Lewis or G.K.Chesterton</p>
<p>&#8220;When a drunk falls off his donkey and climbs back on, often as not he&#8217;ll fall right off on the other side.&#8221; &#8212; attributed to Martin Luther</p>
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		<title>By: Mothers and Daughters - The Redheaded Skeptic</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/12/09/quivering-daughters-in-a-steadfast-world-part-3-perception/comment-page-1/#comment-8341</link>
		<dc:creator>Mothers and Daughters - The Redheaded Skeptic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 17:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=9743#comment-8341</guid>
		<description>[...] why I blog about it: the people who should listen don&#8217;t, so I turn to those who do. I read this and this and want to yell: yes, yes, a thousand times yes! Even though we weren&#8217;t QF, the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] why I blog about it: the people who should listen don&#8217;t, so I turn to those who do. I read this and this and want to yell: yes, yes, a thousand times yes! Even though we weren&#8217;t QF, the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Vyckie D. Garrison</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/12/09/quivering-daughters-in-a-steadfast-world-part-3-perception/comment-page-1/#comment-8333</link>
		<dc:creator>Vyckie D. Garrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=9743#comment-8333</guid>
		<description>Rebecca ~ ?? Have you read parts 4 &amp; 5?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rebecca ~ ?? Have you read parts 4 &amp; 5?</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/12/09/quivering-daughters-in-a-steadfast-world-part-3-perception/comment-page-1/#comment-8327</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Dec 2010 06:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=9743#comment-8327</guid>
		<description>Hate to say it, but if I were the ex-QF daughter reading this, I&#039;d be pretty damned pissed off to be patted on the head and told, &quot;Oh, honey. If you think it was abusive, then I&#039;m sure it was. Even if I don&#039;t really think it was anything that bad.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hate to say it, but if I were the ex-QF daughter reading this, I&#8217;d be pretty damned pissed off to be patted on the head and told, &#8220;Oh, honey. If you think it was abusive, then I&#8217;m sure it was. Even if I don&#8217;t really think it was anything that bad.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Merri</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/12/09/quivering-daughters-in-a-steadfast-world-part-3-perception/comment-page-1/#comment-8321</link>
		<dc:creator>Merri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 19:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=9743#comment-8321</guid>
		<description>I forgot a huge one- abuse leaves scars.  I think most everyone here knows that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I forgot a huge one- abuse leaves scars.  I think most everyone here knows that.</p>
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		<title>By: Merri</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/12/09/quivering-daughters-in-a-steadfast-world-part-3-perception/comment-page-1/#comment-8320</link>
		<dc:creator>Merri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 19:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=9743#comment-8320</guid>
		<description>Abuse never feels safe.  Abuse requires secrets.  Abuse leads to separation- from people who care, or might care, who might show pity or take action.  Abuse requires maintaining status quo.  Abuse requires stagnation- no room for growth, change or exploration.  Finally, abuse requires an imbalance of power.  Couldn&#039;t think of an s-word to convery that, but it&#039;s too true to omit.

Just some thoughts, some of us do well with a checklist.  The only thing worse than being in an abusive situation for a time is staying in one until it is too late.  There is nothing worse than too late.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Abuse never feels safe.  Abuse requires secrets.  Abuse leads to separation- from people who care, or might care, who might show pity or take action.  Abuse requires maintaining status quo.  Abuse requires stagnation- no room for growth, change or exploration.  Finally, abuse requires an imbalance of power.  Couldn&#8217;t think of an s-word to convery that, but it&#8217;s too true to omit.</p>
<p>Just some thoughts, some of us do well with a checklist.  The only thing worse than being in an abusive situation for a time is staying in one until it is too late.  There is nothing worse than too late.</p>
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		<title>By: Vyckie D. Garrison</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/12/09/quivering-daughters-in-a-steadfast-world-part-3-perception/comment-page-1/#comment-8315</link>
		<dc:creator>Vyckie D. Garrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=9743#comment-8315</guid>
		<description>Sea ~ !!! So good to hear from you! We miss you :)  You&#039;re so fabulous!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sea ~ !!! So good to hear from you! We miss you <img src='http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   You&#8217;re so fabulous!</p>
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		<title>By: Sargassosea</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/12/09/quivering-daughters-in-a-steadfast-world-part-3-perception/comment-page-1/#comment-8314</link>
		<dc:creator>Sargassosea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=9743#comment-8314</guid>
		<description>This post is brilliant in its honesty and simplicity.  Thanks Vyckie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post is brilliant in its honesty and simplicity.  Thanks Vyckie.</p>
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		<title>By: susan</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/12/09/quivering-daughters-in-a-steadfast-world-part-3-perception/comment-page-1/#comment-8263</link>
		<dc:creator>susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Dec 2010 03:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=9743#comment-8263</guid>
		<description>What a great post, Vyckie! You are absolutely right that relationships are not about creating neat little categories and defining what constitutes abuse and what doesn&#039;t. It makes so much more sense to just listen to our children, try to see things from their perspective, and do our very best to meet their needs.

I still recall how when my older dd was five and my younger dd was a few months old, I stopped and listened to dd1 and heard her saying that she felt like I was treating her like my slave. And I realized that I had indeed been making all kinds of demands that she drop whatever she was doing and run and fetch things for me, while I sat holding the baby. 

Not that I sat all day, but I&#039;d &quot;finally&quot; finish whatever household tasks I needed to do and sit or lie down to nurse, and then realize I didn&#039;t have a clean diaper or wipes or what-have-you close by, and call for dd1 to bring it.

Around this time I read and article on the site joyfullyrejoycing.com/, where the author challenged another mother&#039;s insistence that she &quot;needed&quot; her older child to help her in certain ways because she had a new baby. I realized that, hey, when dd1 was a baby and it was just the two of us, I managed to &quot;fetch&quot; whatever things I needed for myself even though I had a baby in arms. If I could do so much for myself back then, why not now?

So I made a new resolution to be my own &quot;errand girl,&quot; and also to show more willingness to serve my older dd in the ways that I&#039;d been expecting her to serve me. After all, servanthood and mutual submission work both ways. If it&#039;s okay for me to sometimes tell my children, &quot;I&#039;m really tired so if you want such-and-such you&#039;ll need to make/get it yourself&quot; (and it IS okay), then it&#039;s also okay for them to sometimes say the same thing to me.

I still don&#039;t honestly know if it fit the guidelines of abusive behavior for me to be always asking dd1 to run and fetch for me -- all that matters is that she was not happy in this role. She IS happy now that we have an honest relationship where we sometimes do stuff for each other and sometimes say, &quot;I&#039;m sorry but I&#039;m really in the middle of something right now.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a great post, Vyckie! You are absolutely right that relationships are not about creating neat little categories and defining what constitutes abuse and what doesn&#8217;t. It makes so much more sense to just listen to our children, try to see things from their perspective, and do our very best to meet their needs.</p>
<p>I still recall how when my older dd was five and my younger dd was a few months old, I stopped and listened to dd1 and heard her saying that she felt like I was treating her like my slave. And I realized that I had indeed been making all kinds of demands that she drop whatever she was doing and run and fetch things for me, while I sat holding the baby. </p>
<p>Not that I sat all day, but I&#8217;d &#8220;finally&#8221; finish whatever household tasks I needed to do and sit or lie down to nurse, and then realize I didn&#8217;t have a clean diaper or wipes or what-have-you close by, and call for dd1 to bring it.</p>
<p>Around this time I read and article on the site joyfullyrejoycing.com/, where the author challenged another mother&#8217;s insistence that she &#8220;needed&#8221; her older child to help her in certain ways because she had a new baby. I realized that, hey, when dd1 was a baby and it was just the two of us, I managed to &#8220;fetch&#8221; whatever things I needed for myself even though I had a baby in arms. If I could do so much for myself back then, why not now?</p>
<p>So I made a new resolution to be my own &#8220;errand girl,&#8221; and also to show more willingness to serve my older dd in the ways that I&#8217;d been expecting her to serve me. After all, servanthood and mutual submission work both ways. If it&#8217;s okay for me to sometimes tell my children, &#8220;I&#8217;m really tired so if you want such-and-such you&#8217;ll need to make/get it yourself&#8221; (and it IS okay), then it&#8217;s also okay for them to sometimes say the same thing to me.</p>
<p>I still don&#8217;t honestly know if it fit the guidelines of abusive behavior for me to be always asking dd1 to run and fetch for me &#8212; all that matters is that she was not happy in this role. She IS happy now that we have an honest relationship where we sometimes do stuff for each other and sometimes say, &#8220;I&#8217;m sorry but I&#8217;m really in the middle of something right now.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Charis</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/12/09/quivering-daughters-in-a-steadfast-world-part-3-perception/comment-page-1/#comment-8262</link>
		<dc:creator>Charis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Dec 2010 02:05:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=9743#comment-8262</guid>
		<description>When I realized that my childhood had been abusive (through counseling in my 40&#039;s- covert incest by my father and molestation by my *********) I immediately saw how I was trying to build high walls around my beautiful daughters to protect them!  If only they never saw bad movies; if only they always covered up, maybe they would not be violated like I was?    When I explained to them what had happened to me and apologized for my overprotective reaction of being the modesty and movie gestapo, the ice melted, especially with the then 15 yo.  

Thankfully, I was able to make amends when the oldest of my 8 were all still teens and they were amazingly understanding and forgiving!  And the first 4 are launched as I think grown &quot;arrows&quot; should be :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I realized that my childhood had been abusive (through counseling in my 40&#8242;s- covert incest by my father and molestation by my *********) I immediately saw how I was trying to build high walls around my beautiful daughters to protect them!  If only they never saw bad movies; if only they always covered up, maybe they would not be violated like I was?    When I explained to them what had happened to me and apologized for my overprotective reaction of being the modesty and movie gestapo, the ice melted, especially with the then 15 yo.  </p>
<p>Thankfully, I was able to make amends when the oldest of my 8 were all still teens and they were amazingly understanding and forgiving!  And the first 4 are launched as I think grown &#8220;arrows&#8221; should be <img src='http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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