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	<title>NO LONGER QIVERING &#187; children are a blessing</title>
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		<title>The Destiny of a Virtuous Daughter ~ Part 3: Pop Guns &amp; Purity Rings</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/10/27/the-destiny-of-a-virtuous-daughter-part-3-pop-guns-purity-rings/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/10/27/the-destiny-of-a-virtuous-daughter-part-3-pop-guns-purity-rings/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2011 12:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=15573</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/05/29/the-destiny-of-a-virtuous-daughter-part-2/virtuous-daughter-7-3/" rel="attachment wp-att-11531"><img class="alignleft" title="Virtuous Daughter 7" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Virtuous-Daughter-7.jpg" alt="" width="238" height="384" /></a>
<div><em><strong><span style="color: #008000;">by Starfury</span></strong></em></div>
Growing up, I read books like <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1881545091/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&#38;tag=familiesthatflou&#38;linkCode=as2&#38;camp=217145&#38;creative=399369&#38;creativeASIN=1881545091" target="_blank">The King's Daughter</a>, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0317002678/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&#38;tag=familiesthatflou&#38;linkCode=as2&#38;camp=217145&#38;creative=399369&#38;creativeASIN=0317002678" target="_blank">Dear Princess</a>, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1883934028/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&#38;tag=familiesthatflou&#38;linkCode=as2&#38;camp=217145&#38;creative=399373&#38;creativeASIN=1883934028" target="_blank">Beautiful Girlhood</a>, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1891907034/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&#38;tag=familiesthatflou&#38;linkCode=as2&#38;camp=217145&#38;creative=399373&#38;creativeASIN=1891907034" target="_blank">Waiting for Her Isaac</a>, and <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/189190700X/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&#38;tag=familiesthatflou&#38;linkCode=as2&#38;camp=217145&#38;creative=399369&#38;creativeASIN=189190700X" target="_blank">The Courtship of Sarah MacLean</a> over and over. I would plan out having twenty six children, so I could use every letter of the alphabet when I named them. I would try to devise my own homeschool curriculum based on the ones I had used, and what I liked and didn't like about them. On top of all that, I was writing my own Proverbs 31 devotional.

And yet, somewhere in all of this, I was still punching things into a "computer" on a tree, and yelling for everyone to get out and climb the Jeffries Tubes because of a warp core breach. Rather than make a hoop skirt, I made a Confederate general's uniform for the end of unit celebration. I was almost fifteen, the homeschool convention was happening over my birthday, and I wanted two things: a Vision Forum pop gun, and a purity ring from Generations of Virtue.

I got both.

They probably assumed the pop-gun would do little harm, after all, I had seven brothers and probably wanted to use it on them, until I tired of it and returned to my books and daydreams. The people at the Vision Forum booth looked a little more wary when they saw my dad hand the pop-gun over to me, but I didn't care. After all, I'd grown up fashioning blasters out of Legos with my brothers, so we could play at Star Wars or Star Trek. Now I just had a gun that actually made noise when you shot it!
<p style="text-align: right;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/10/27/the-destiny-of-a-virtuous-daughter-part-3-pop-guns-purity-rings/">Full Post ...</a></strong></span></p>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/05/29/the-destiny-of-a-virtuous-daughter-part-2/virtuous-daughter-7-3/" rel="attachment wp-att-11531"><img class="alignleft" title="Virtuous Daughter 7" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Virtuous-Daughter-7.jpg" alt="" width="238" height="384" /></a></p>
<div><em><strong><span style="color: #008000;">by Starfury</span></strong></em></div>
<p>Growing up, I read books like <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1881545091/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=familiesthatflou&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=217145&amp;creative=399369&amp;creativeASIN=1881545091" target="_blank">The King&#8217;s Daughter</a>, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0317002678/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=familiesthatflou&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=217145&amp;creative=399369&amp;creativeASIN=0317002678" target="_blank">Dear Princess</a>, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1883934028/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=familiesthatflou&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=217145&amp;creative=399373&amp;creativeASIN=1883934028" target="_blank">Beautiful Girlhood</a>, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1891907034/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=familiesthatflou&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=217145&amp;creative=399373&amp;creativeASIN=1891907034" target="_blank">Waiting for Her Isaac</a>, and <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/189190700X/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=familiesthatflou&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=217145&amp;creative=399369&amp;creativeASIN=189190700X" target="_blank">The Courtship of Sarah MacLean</a> over and over. I would plan out having twenty six children, so I could use every letter of the alphabet when I named them. I would try to devise my own homeschool curriculum based on the ones I had used, and what I liked and didn&#8217;t like about them. On top of all that, I was writing my own Proverbs 31 devotional.</p>
<p>And yet, somewhere in all of this, I was still punching things into a &#8221;computer&#8221; on a tree, and yelling for everyone to get out and climb the Jeffries Tubes because of a warp core breach. Rather than make a hoop skirt, I made a Confederate general&#8217;s uniform for the end of unit celebration. I was almost fifteen, the homeschool convention was happening over my birthday, and I wanted two things: a Vision Forum pop gun, and a purity ring from Generations of Virtue.</p>
<p>I got both.</p>
<p>They probably assumed the pop-gun would do little harm, after all, I had seven brothers and probably wanted to use it on them, until I tired of it and returned to my books and daydreams. The people at the Vision Forum booth looked a little more wary when they saw my dad hand the pop-gun over to me, but I didn&#8217;t care. After all, I&#8217;d grown up fashioning blasters out of Legos with my brothers, so we could play at Star Wars or Star Trek. Now I just had a gun that actually made noise when you shot it!</p>
<p>I spent hours trying to decide on a purity ring. I wanted one with meaning, and I wanted it to be pretty. Besides, the more time I spent there, the more likely I was to convince my parents that I really wanted the newest Ludy book. After we picked up the purity ring, my dad and I had a talk about what it meant. I told him what I wanted, and I promised to remain pure until marriage.</p>
<p>Looking back, I wonder why I was promising things at 14 that were so far in the future. I was blissfully ignorant of the concept of ideas and people changing, and in my naivete, I assumed that what I thought on that day would still hold true in 5 years. Even if it didn&#8217;t, I had the guilt of breaking promises hanging over my head.</p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1214"><br />
Discuss this post on the NLQ forum!</a></em></p>
<h3><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/nlqstories/starfury/">Read all posts by Starfury</a></strong></h3>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<item>
		<title>Justice is No Lady: Chapter 9 &#8211; Terrorists, Far and Near</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/10/06/justice-is-no-lady-chapter-9-terrorists-far-and-near/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/10/06/justice-is-no-lady-chapter-9-terrorists-far-and-near/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2011 12:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
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		<description><![CDATA[<em>Warning: This story series contains descriptions of physical abuse.</em>

<a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/08/15/justice-is-no-lady-prologue-final-break/defenant-rising-2/" rel="attachment wp-att-7259"><img class="alignleft" title="defenant rising" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/defenant-rising1.jpg" alt="" width="276" height="183" /></a>

<span style="color: #008000;"><strong><em>by Tess Willoughby</em></strong></span>

September 11, 2001. This dark day united all Americans in horror, in terror, and in pain.

With at least one exception: Nate Willoughby.

I found out that our country had been attacked using our own commercial aircraft when my mother called me from town and said, “Turn on the news.” Her tone of voice suggested the worst of the worst of the worst: so awful that you didn’t ask “what channel?” because it didn’t matter what channel. The president had been assassinated. There was some horrific, unthinkable natural disaster, probably in Virginia. Something so bad she couldn’t say it.

I hung up, turned on the TV and watched the Twin Towers burn, holding the phone in my hand.

The phone rang. I hit the answer button. Nate lit into me about how I needed to come back to him and I was in rebellion against God and would probably go to hell.

I swallowed and sat on the floor and said, “Are you aware that terrorists have attacked New York City? The World Trade Center is burning!”

Nate said, “Who cares. We’re talking about <em>my</em> life.”

I hung up on him and sobbed and choked in front of the TV until I didn’t have any more strength to cry. How mean and insane was my husband? How would I ever get away from this vindictive bastard without being destroyed? Was Nate even human? Was my country’s government about to fall? How many more planes had been hijacked, and what would blow up next? It felt as though my own personal hell had unleashed national horrors and worldwide chaos. The lid had blown off life itself and nothing venerable, nothing precious, nothing good could stand. My own personal, religious zealot terrorist had gone global somehow and the world was burning and crumbling to the ground; nothing and nobody was safe from crazy men with extreme religious agendas.

Post-traumatic stress does funky things with your brain. That September, I believed that I had landed in a world without personal boundaries, without national security: a world of merciless anarchy where freedom was not only impossible but a joke and and an illusion. A world where terrorists could strike anywhere and nightmarish, ruinously expensive court hearings never ended, but God was silent. I believed that I could lose absolutely everything, even my nation. If not for my parents, I would have lost my sanity.

<p style="text-align: right;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/10/06/justice-is-no-lady-chapter-9-terrorists-far-and-near/">Full post ...</a></strong></span></p>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Warning: This story series contains descriptions of physical abuse.</em></p>
<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/08/15/justice-is-no-lady-prologue-final-break/defenant-rising-2/" rel="attachment wp-att-7259"><img class="alignleft" title="defenant rising" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/defenant-rising1.jpg" alt="" width="276" height="183" /></a></p>
<p><span style="color: #008000;"><strong><em>by Tess Willoughby</em></strong></span></p>
<p>September 11, 2001. This dark day united all Americans in horror, in terror, and in pain.</p>
<p>With at least one exception: Nate Willoughby.</p>
<p>I found out that our country had been attacked using our own commercial aircraft when my mother called me from town and said, “Turn on the news.” Her tone of voice suggested the worst of the worst of the worst: so awful that you didn’t ask “what channel?” because it didn’t matter what channel. The president had been assassinated. There was some horrific, unthinkable natural disaster, probably in Virginia. Something so bad she couldn’t say it.</p>
<p>I hung up, turned on the TV and watched the Twin Towers burn, holding the phone in my hand.</p>
<p>The phone rang. I hit the answer button. Nate lit into me about how I needed to come back to him and I was in rebellion against God and would probably go to hell.</p>
<p>I swallowed and sat on the floor and said, “Are you aware that terrorists have attacked New York City? The World Trade Center is burning!”</p>
<p>Nate said, “Who cares. We’re talking about <em>my</em> life.”</p>
<p>I hung up on him and sobbed and choked in front of the TV until I didn’t have any more strength to cry. How mean and insane was my husband? How would I ever get away from this vindictive bastard without being destroyed? Was Nate even human? Was my country’s government about to fall? How many more planes had been hijacked, and what would blow up next? It felt as though my own personal hell had unleashed national horrors and worldwide chaos. The lid had blown off life itself and nothing venerable, nothing precious, nothing good could stand. My own personal, religious zealot terrorist had gone global somehow and the world was burning and crumbling to the ground; nothing and nobody was safe from crazy men with extreme religious agendas.</p>
<p>Post-traumatic stress does funky things with your brain. That September, I believed that I had landed in a world without personal boundaries, without national security: a world of merciless anarchy where freedom was not only impossible but a joke and and an illusion. A world where terrorists could strike anywhere and nightmarish, ruinously expensive court hearings never ended, but God was silent. I believed that I could lose absolutely everything, even my nation. If not for my parents, I would have lost my sanity.</p>
<p>My divorce lawyer had been worn down by Nate’s bullying to the breaking point. She was pushing me to agree to a no-fault divorce with all legal issues reserved for later. She would do nothing to get me any permanent alimony, nothing to get me any property, nothing to get me permanent custody of my children, nothing to help me with the personal injury suit, nothing at all except to sign a no-fault divorce decree now that the year-long waiting period was over.  She made it clear that I had no choice in this—in order to continue to represent me, she would have to hire additional staff to keep up with Nate, who had her completely buried in paperwork.</p>
<p>My lawyer was quitting, and she hated to bring it up but. . .I owed her $30,000.00. When my dad and I couldn’t pay any more, she put me on a payment plan. When we couldn’t make the payments, she turned me over to a collection agency. That collection agency, Chase and Citibank (Nate had credit cards in my name, remember?) called me every day.</p>
<p>Nate paid no child support, of course. He had a child support <em>matter</em> filed in court (the first of six), and was appealing the alimony, so would not be sending a dime while a decision or appeal was pending. Because the children and I were on public assistance, I got Legal Aid in Virginia Beach, but they would only help with the equitable distribution matter because of limited resources. On the custody/alimony/ child support matter, and the personal injury matter, I was on my own; I would have to drive six hours and represent myself.  Another lawyer in Virginia Beach was unaffordable.</p>
<p>Why so many matters? Why so many cases? you may be wondering. The judges found it more economical for the court to farm out the matters to multiple judges rather than one judge hearing the whole mess, since Nate files multiple motions per hearing and rants and raves for hours. Every separate matter in turn quickly became a legal swamp with its own morass of motions to respond to, discovery to answer, and subpoenas to move to quash. Litigating with Nate has always been like fighting the Hydra. You lop off one hearing but that hearing spawns three more hearings; answer one motion and get three more in the mail; quash one subpoena and get notice of three more. In Virginia, a lawyer can file his own subpoenas without going through any court, so Nate subpoenaed everything and everybody he could think of for every hearing. He quickly overwhelmed the whole judicial population of the Virginia Beach Circuit Court. The first judge, who returned Moriah to me after her dad kidnapped her out of school, stepped down after Nate filed a writ of mandamus against her with the Virginia Supreme Court.</p>
<p>Legal Aid got me nothing in equitable distribution except the stuff I ran away with. The judge ruled that I kept what I had in my possession and Nate kept what he had in his possession. Nate had taken out a second mortgage on our house without my knowledge, plus run up the debut on the credit cards, and so Nate persuaded the judge that in order to split the property 50/50, it was only fair that the marital debt also be divided 50/50. The judge bought this argument, and I got nothing. Not even the children’s toys.</p>
<p>This is going to sound idiotic but I’m going to say it anyway: even though I’m moderate now and voted for Barack Obama and probably will vote for him again, I can’t hate George W. Bush like so many of my good friends do. I detest the Patriot Act and hate the war even more, but I was on welfare with six little kids when the terrorists attacked and about to lose everything I owned in the courts. After 9/11, it was the president who gave me the reassurance that I might lose everything else—all my belongings and even eventually my children—but I wouldn’t lose my country. I’d still be American, and Americans have always been bullheaded enough to hang onto the faith that they <em>can</em> get free. No matter who or what is standing in the way.</p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1181">Discuss this post on the NLQ forum!</a></em></p>
<p><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/nlqstories/tess-willoughby/">Read all posts by Tess Willoughby!</a></strong></p>
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<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>Smoke &amp; Mirrors</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/09/20/smoke-mirrors/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/09/20/smoke-mirrors/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2011 18:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=15370</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/09/20/smoke-mirrors/37956_m/" rel="attachment wp-att-15371"><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-15371" title="37956_m" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/37956_m-300x208.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="208" /></a><span style="color: #008000;"><em><strong>by Vyckie</strong></em></span>

Libby Anne makes an astute point in her <a href="http://lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/2011/09/vision-forum-fixing-problems-by-turning.html#more" target="_blank">recent post</a> at Love, Joy, Feminism:
<blockquote>Vision Forum focuses on problems in society, inflates them, and then blames feminism and modernity. Then Vision Forum seeks to fix the problems by turning back the clock to a time that never existed. The version of the past that Vision Forum sells is a myth. The problems we face in society today are not new. Substance abuse, the challenges of balancing motherhood and work, and the devaluation of women have <em>always </em>been with us. Looking back to some idealized imaginary past where families had no problems, mothers happily stayed home and devoted their time to raising their children, and women were valued and esteemed in return for surrendering their freedom and rights <em>does not actually fix any problems!</em></blockquote>
<em></em>For example:
<blockquote>
<div id="yui_3_2_0_15_131652054527448"><strong>A Devaluation of Women</strong></div>
<div id="yui_3_2_0_15_131652054527448">Vision Forum speaks with disgust of the ways young women are treated today as the young men around them treat them as accessories and pressure them for sex. Vision Forum is looks in horror at the ways women are portrayed in advertising, and at the pressure to conform to some sort of perfect body image that women are faced with every day. Vision Forum is completely aware that women are devalued in our society.</div>
<div><a href="http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Turbofist911/DateRape.png"><img class="aligncenter" style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; border-width: 0px;" src="http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Turbofist911/DateRape.png" alt="" width="320" height="256" border="0" /></a></div>
<div>Yes, be very, very horrified by that image and the accompanying text. I only show it to point out that there are real problems here. Women in today's society are often treated as sexual objects and devalued as "blond bimbos" or "simply emotional." But somehow, Vision Forum does not realize that the root of this problem is <em>sexism</em>, and instead blames <em>feminism</em>. Seriously,<em>what?</em> Feminists are not <em>complicit </em>in this misogyny; rather, they are working to <em>end it.</em> But for Vision Forum, the solution is once again not to fix the problems we face in the here and now, but to turn back the clock.</div>
<div><a href="http://media.visionforum.com/products/images/32303_m.jpg"><img class="alignleft" style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; border-width: 0px;" src="http://media.visionforum.com/products/images/32303_m.jpg" alt="" width="320" height="265" border="0" /></a></div>
Vision Forum points back to a time when young women were valued and protected (by their fathers). Once again, this picture was never reality for more than a sliver of society. Most women were working class and fended for themselves. They lived with the reality of sexual violence and exploitation.

But there's more to it than that. Vision Forum tells women that they can be valued and have their position in society elevated -<em> if they surrender their rights and accept male authority</em>. They do not see misogyny as the problem, but rather blame the way families today push their young women out of the home at age 18 and launch them unprotected into the dangers of society. Young women will be protected from the debauchery of college men, Vision Forum promises - if they stay home and obey their fathers. Middle aged women will be free from the pressure to conform to an idealized image of sexy, Vision Forum asserts - if they stay home and obey their husbands. What is this? You will be valued and protected if you surrender all your rights and obey your male authority? <em>THIS </em>is the solution Vision Forum offers!</blockquote>

<p style="text-align: right;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/09/20/smoke-mirrors/">Full post ...</a></strong></span></p>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/09/20/smoke-mirrors/37956_m/" rel="attachment wp-att-15371"><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-15371" title="37956_m" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/37956_m-300x208.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="208" /></a><span style="color: #008000;"><em><strong>by Vyckie</strong></em></span></p>
<p>Libby Anne makes an astute point in her <a href="http://lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/2011/09/vision-forum-fixing-problems-by-turning.html#more" target="_blank">recent post</a> at Love, Joy, Feminism:</p>
<blockquote><p>Vision Forum focuses on problems in society, inflates them, and then blames feminism and modernity. Then Vision Forum seeks to fix the problems by turning back the clock to a time that never existed. The version of the past that Vision Forum sells is a myth. The problems we face in society today are not new. Substance abuse, the challenges of balancing motherhood and work, and the devaluation of women have <em>always </em>been with us. Looking back to some idealized imaginary past where families had no problems, mothers happily stayed home and devoted their time to raising their children, and women were valued and esteemed in return for surrendering their freedom and rights <em>does not actually fix any problems!</em></p></blockquote>
<p><em></em>For example:</p>
<blockquote>
<div id="yui_3_2_0_15_131652054527448"><strong>A Devaluation of Women</strong></div>
<div id="yui_3_2_0_15_131652054527448">Vision Forum speaks with disgust of the ways young women are treated today as the young men around them treat them as accessories and pressure them for sex. Vision Forum is looks in horror at the ways women are portrayed in advertising, and at the pressure to conform to some sort of perfect body image that women are faced with every day. Vision Forum is completely aware that women are devalued in our society.</div>
<div><a href="http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Turbofist911/DateRape.png"><img class="aligncenter" style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; border-width: 0px;" src="http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Turbofist911/DateRape.png" alt="" width="320" height="256" border="0" /></a></div>
<div>Yes, be very, very horrified by that image and the accompanying text. I only show it to point out that there are real problems here. Women in today&#8217;s society are often treated as sexual objects and devalued as &#8220;blond bimbos&#8221; or &#8220;simply emotional.&#8221; But somehow, Vision Forum does not realize that the root of this problem is <em>sexism</em>, and instead blames <em>feminism</em>. Seriously,<em>what?</em> Feminists are not <em>complicit </em>in this misogyny; rather, they are working to <em>end it.</em> But for Vision Forum, the solution is once again not to fix the problems we face in the here and now, but to turn back the clock.</div>
<div><a href="http://media.visionforum.com/products/images/32303_m.jpg"><img class="alignleft" style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; border-width: 0px;" src="http://media.visionforum.com/products/images/32303_m.jpg" alt="" width="320" height="265" border="0" /></a></div>
<p>Vision Forum points back to a time when young women were valued and protected (by their fathers). Once again, this picture was never reality for more than a sliver of society. Most women were working class and fended for themselves. They lived with the reality of sexual violence and exploitation.</p>
<p>But there&#8217;s more to it than that. Vision Forum tells women that they can be valued and have their position in society elevated -<em> if they surrender their rights and accept male authority</em>. They do not see misogyny as the problem, but rather blame the way families today push their young women out of the home at age 18 and launch them unprotected into the dangers of society. Young women will be protected from the debauchery of college men, Vision Forum promises &#8211; if they stay home and obey their fathers. Middle aged women will be free from the pressure to conform to an idealized image of sexy, Vision Forum asserts &#8211; if they stay home and obey their husbands. What is this? You will be valued and protected if you surrender all your rights and obey your male authority? <em>THIS </em>is the solution Vision Forum offers!</p>
<p>Meanwhile, feminists believe that women <em>can be valued and have equal rights</em>. In fact, feminists hold that the key to ending the devaluation of women is not accepting women&#8217;s subordination to males but rather <em>bringing about true equality.</em> Accepting a second class status for women only furthers the root problem here, which is sexism and misogyny. Vision Forum doesn&#8217;t see this, because it believes that women are &#8220;weaker vessels&#8221; which need protecting. Furthermore, feminists work to fix the problems in our society today by actually working to fix them. The solution is not to turn back the clock or to ask women to surrender their rights in return for protection. The solution is to combat sexism and misogyny and work toward actual equality. But somehow, Vision Forum identifies that as the <em>problem</em>.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/2011/09/vision-forum-fixing-problems-by-turning.html#more" target="_blank">Read the full post here &#8230;</a></p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1142">Discuss this post on the NLQ forum.</a></em>  Comments are also open below.</p>
<p><em>Libby Anne lives with her husband and toddler somewhere in the U.S. She has left patriarchy for feminism and has found freedom. She is a graduate student with big plans for her life. You can read her blog at <a href="http://lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/">Love</a></em><a href="http://lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/">, Joy, Feminism.</a></p>
<h3><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/nlqstories/libby-anne/">Read all posts by Libby Anne!</a></h3>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>Family Man, Family Leader: In Conclusion</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/09/04/family-man-family-leader-in-conclusion/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/09/04/family-man-family-leader-in-conclusion/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2011 15:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
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		<description><![CDATA[by LivingForEternity The other day my husband came to me and confessed that sharing our story was just very painful for him to the point of tears. Out of love and respect for him I am submitting by not continuing to tell what we have been through. He did not ask me not to, but the <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/09/04/family-man-family-leader-in-conclusion/"><b>Full post ...</b></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/09/08/family-man-family-leader-intro-happily-recovering-from-the-devastating-effects-of-doug-phillips-and-vision-forum-views/family-man-family-leader/" rel="attachment wp-att-7867"><img class="alignleft" title="family man family leader" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/family-man-family-leader.jpg" alt="" width="179" height="177" /></a>by </em></strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&amp;user=bettone"><strong><em>LivingForEternity</em></strong></a></p>
<p>The other day my husband came to me and confessed that sharing our story was just very painful for him to the point of tears. Out of love and respect for him I am submitting by not continuing to tell what we have been through. He did not ask me not to, but the last thing I want to do is hurt someone that I love so much. However, I would like to share where we are now, as how we got here really doesn’t matter. We choose to live from today and not let our past dictate who we are.</p>
<p>We no longer have an identity created by our marriage or our children. His identity is not bound to whether or not he is a perfect “leader” of his home. Mine is not tied to being the “perfect” wife and mother. We can never be those things. We could never achieve the perfection put forth by the Pearls, Doug Phillips, or any other mortal man. We were like beautiful tombs, but were dead inside. Our identity comes from trusting in the sacrifice of our Lord. The life I live is in faith, not faith in men, but faith in God. If my husband leaves I stand, if he stays I stand. We are who we are because It is finished, the work is done on our behalf.</p>
<p>This had given us freedom that we never knew. Before, we thought we had to be something or do something before our lives would be perfect. We had all these ideas from men, but when these ideas did not work out the way they promised we had to turn somewhere else. This compelled us to our answer, which was our faith. Is it perfect? No. We still stumble and misunderstand, but we have a peace now that was missing. We discovered through much study and prayer how we were supposed to treat each other. Not how some man said we should treat each other. We were in roles that were not intended for us to be in.</p>
<p>One thing we discovered is that we desire to be praised and worshiped. For me it was praise and honor that my marriage was intact and my kids well-behaved. Serving my family was not an act of love, but one of gaining praise for myself. A patriarchal dad is the center of his home or “kingdom”. He is worshiped by absolute obedience and getting his every desire. When our son began to rebel, and I was so unhappy in my marriage I was shattered. Everything I had worked for was not turning out the way I wanted. My husband was really unhappy trying to strive for this worship, because he was not created to be worshiped. He was created to worship.</p>
<p>We both felt condemned, because our life was not the perfect rosy picture of happiness religious men had told us it should be. We were condemned because our older children weren’t the picture of obedience, condemned because I worked out of the home, condemned for the music we listened to, and on and on. This unhappiness led us to the discovery of Romans 8:1-2. We had read it many times before but it never spoke to us. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death. We had bound ourselves to the laws of men’s interpretation. So now we will stand in the knowledge that it is for freedom that Christ has set us free. We will stand firm, then, and not let ourselves be burdened again by the yoke of slavery.</p>
<p>We realized that Phillips and the Pearls really have a narrow vision that can’t be applicable universally. We believe God is universal and cross-cultural. We had separated ourselves from the “bad” influences of the world. We wanted to keep our family “protected”. We lived in fear, which was wrong, because perfect love casts away fear. When Jesus walked the earth many of his friends were whores and thieves. He loved these people. The “religious” people on the other hand were constantly subject to His wrath. We were the “religious.”  This was hard for us to accept about ourselves. We had scorned the very people that Jesus loved. Since then we have opened our lives to many more people, and have been greatly blessed. We are confident that He who began a good work will complete it no matter who is in our lives.</p>
<p>One of the most important things we have learned is not to take ourselves too seriously. This can lead to hurt feelings, resentment, and bitterness. So we consider each other and look not only to our own interest, but to the interest of each other. Bitterness can destroy a person, so we have been gifted with the ability to let things go that have happened to us or things that we really can’t control. We bear with each other and forgive because we have been forgiven.</p>
<p>Notice that I say we. This has been a journey that we have taken mutually, and for that we are grateful. Neither of us could have done it without the other, nor would we be where we are today without the other being on this journey. Do we have the perfect, rosy marriage? No, but our vision is much clearer. This allows us to walk together in love and unity. If the unity is broken we have the tools to fix it. We had no one but each other on this journey, and that was good. We have been to many marriage seminars in the past, but they never helped like just being with each other through our trials. We are so very cautious now about the advice of men. It is always filtered through each other, prayer, and scripture.</p>
<p>The hardest thing we had to deal with was being totally open and honest with each other. That is naked and unashamed. I am not talking about being physically clothed or not, but about who we truly are and how we truly feel. We were guilty of putting conditions on our love, both with each other and our children.  In the past we were afraid to share our true selves, because of the possible condemnation. Finally being able to do this with each other has been the best part of this journey. The comfort we feel around each other has made a powerful difference in our lives. I am truly a better person, because of my husband and his unconditional love.</p>
<p>This is simply our story, and is not meant for advice to anyone. We have had enough advice to last us for eternity. It is our wish that it be an encouragement.</p>
<p>I would like to thank Vyckie for her courage in starting this website. Krwordgazer you have filled in so many gaps in my understanding. You have been blessed with a wonderful gift. Journey, Africaturtle, Dragonfly, Mamaloo, Calalu you have encouraged me with your courage and determination. Keep it up. Tess, I so want your story to have a happy ending. We are survivors.</p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1094">Discuss this post on the NLQ forum.</a> Comments are also open below ~ please feel free to add your well-wishes to LivingForEternity and her family.</em></p>
<p><strong></strong><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/nlqstories/livingforeternity/">Read all posts by LivingForEternity!</a></strong></p>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>Justice Is No Lady: Chapter 8 ~ Backlash</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/09/01/justice-is-no-lady-chapter-8-backlash/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/09/01/justice-is-no-lady-chapter-8-backlash/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 12:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=12855</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<em>Warning: This story series contains descriptions of physical abuse.</em>

<a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/08/15/justice-is-no-lady-prologue-final-break/defenant-rising-2/" rel="attachment wp-att-7259"><img class="alignleft" title="defenant rising" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/defenant-rising1.jpg" alt="" width="276" height="183" /></a>

<span style="color: #008000;"><strong><em>by Defendant Rising</em></strong></span>

<strong>Part Two: The Legal Aftermath</strong>

I fled to the farm where I grew up and spent several weeks just trying to get the fuzz out of my head. I went to the doctor, who diagnosed Abi with failure to thrive. I supplemented her with formula but continued to breastfeed, because for once I had the luxury of breastfeeding by my own lights, and I intended to enjoy it. I moved six kids, 9 years old and under, in with my mom and dad, who were absolute angels about it.  I do not remember either of them complaining even once.

What were Tess’s long-term plans? Did I want separation? Divorce? Neither? Was God angry with me? Could I ever go back? I just stumbled through the days, utterly numb. I could not feel the presence of God, which struck terror into my heart. I could not pray, and opening a Bible freaked me out. Where had my faith gone? What <em>did</em> I believe? My thoughts were like muddy water that must be filtered through normality until the water runs clear. It took a long time to get clear, and in the meantime, I made a very costly mistake.

I filed for legal separation but then withdrew my action. Here is how this went down:

Nate called four or five times a day. He also sent multiple long emails every day. A few highlights:
<ul>
	<li>“I will counter-sue for divorce on fault-grounds of desertion.”</li>
	<li>“Venue (where the divorce will be held) is where the marital home is. You will have to travel back and forth repeatedly.”</li>
	<li>“I will avail myself in good faith of every legal procedure available. This means massive expense to your father. I will appeal any and all negative decisions.”</li>
	<li>“As I am living in the marital home, you will lose the [custody] fight. And of course, if I have the kids you will be paying me child support.”</li>
</ul>
In every email and phone call, Nate demanded that I come home immediately. In one email he made a condition: “Because of your hart [sic] heartedness and manifold sins against me, I will require that you sign an oath before God that you will submit to my authority completely, without question or dissention, and joyfully.”
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Warning: This story series contains descriptions of physical abuse.</em></p>
<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/08/15/justice-is-no-lady-prologue-final-break/defenant-rising-2/" rel="attachment wp-att-7259"><img class="alignleft" title="defenant rising" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/defenant-rising1.jpg" alt="" width="276" height="183" /></a></p>
<p><span style="color: #008000;"><strong><em>by Tess Willoughby</em></strong></span></p>
<p><strong>Part Two: The Legal Aftermath</strong></p>
<p>I fled to the farm where I grew up and spent several weeks just trying to get the fuzz out of my head. I went to the doctor, who diagnosed Abi with failure to thrive. I supplemented her with formula but continued to breastfeed, because for once I had the luxury of breastfeeding by my own lights, and I intended to enjoy it. I moved six kids, 9 years old and under, in with my mom and dad, who were absolute angels about it.  I do not remember either of them complaining even once.</p>
<p>What were Tess’s long-term plans? Did I want separation? Divorce? Neither? Was God angry with me? Could I ever go back? I just stumbled through the days, utterly numb. I could not feel the presence of God, which struck terror into my heart. I could not pray, and opening a Bible freaked me out. Where had my faith gone? What <em>did</em> I believe? My thoughts were like muddy water that must be filtered through normality until the water runs clear. It took a long time to get clear, and in the meantime, I made a very costly mistake.</p>
<p>I filed for legal separation but then withdrew my action. Here is how this went down:</p>
<p>Nate called four or five times a day. He also sent multiple long emails every day. A few highlights:</p>
<ul>
<li style="text-align: left;">“I will counter-sue for divorce on fault-grounds of desertion.”</li>
<li style="text-align: left;">“Venue (where the divorce will be held) is where the marital home is. You will have to travel back and forth repeatedly.”</li>
<li style="text-align: left;">“I will avail myself in good faith of every legal procedure available. This means massive expense to your father. I will appeal any and all negative decisions.”</li>
<li style="text-align: left;">“As I am living in the marital home, you will lose the [custody] fight. And of course, if I have the kids you will be paying me child support.”</li>
</ul>
<p>In every email and phone call, Nate demanded that I come home immediately. In one email he made a condition: “Because of your hart [sic] heartedness and manifold sins against me, I will require that you sign an oath before God that you will submit to my authority completely, without question or dissention, and joyfully.”</p>
<p>Nate sent me the van in “good faith” to “work toward reconciliation,” but when reconciliation did not happen within his two-day deadline, he demanded the van back: his children’s sole transportation which was titled in his name. He threatened to prosecute me for possession of stolen property. He sued for divorce, alleging desertion and mental cruelty. He also sued as the children’s “next friend” against me for the “severe injuries” all six of them had suffered in the wreck (one child had a tiny cut above the eye). He sent my attorney dozens of faxes and called her office many times a day to run up my legal expenses. He mailed me the credit card bills which were in my name. He negotiated with my most prized possessions, using wedding gifts from my grandparents as bargaining chips. He demanded to talk to the children on the phone so that he could manipulate them into telling me to “come home.” They got off the phone and cried, saying, “Daddy is so lonely. Why did we leave him?”</p>
<p>Finally, Nate went bawling into the office of a pastor (not our pastor, of course) and got Rev. So-and-So to email me. Rev. So-and-So sent me the following proposition. We would declare a legal cease-fire and he would counsel with Nate. It was a terrible thing, Rev. So-and-So thought, to break up a family. He quoted the Bible on that score. He assured me that Nate was really repentant and seeking change. I did not want to even see Nate again, much less sleep with him, but I was still very deferential toward pastors and desperately wanted that legal cease-fire. I was not capable of traveling six hours to Virginia Beach for litigation. I was still very weak and confused and had six little kids to care for all summer. I felt guilty about the burden on my parents, which guilt Nate manipulated. My mother would have to take care of six kids so I could come to court and my father would have to pay the legal bills. I didn’t believe my lawyer when she said she could get a protective order that would keep Nate away from me and the kids, or that we would win the venue fight and I could go to court downtown, or that I would win the van in a lawsuit. Besides I had gotten a little foretaste of what even a winning legal battle with Nate would cost in time, money, and aggravation. Nate did nothing, it seemed, but sit at the computer churning out emails, letters, and legal papers around the clock. Some of the emails were composed at 2:00 a.m.</p>
<p>I dropped the legal separation and Nate dropped the divorce and the personal injury suit. The threatening emails became relentless, saccharine declarations of undying, “unconditional” love (Pastor So-and-So must have thought the submission oath was a bad idea).</p>
<p>This lasted for about a week, until Nate stormed into Pastor So-and-So’s office in a rabid froth about his marital rights. Pastor So-and-So emailed me, bewildered at the dramatic change in his penitent, who not only refused to continue the counseling, but damned Pastor So-and-So to hell for refusing to help exercise spiritual discipline over his wayward wife. Pastor So-and-So warned me not to come home.</p>
<p>Does it sound as though I had been gone at least a year or more, given the sheer number of tactics, schemes, scams, and coercions I’d suffered through to this point?</p>
<p>Guess again. Nate had done all this in <em>just shy of six weeks</em>.</p>
<p>I emailed Nate and told him I wasn’t coming back. Then I braced myself. Turns out I didn’t brace myself quite hard enough for what was coming, or how quickly.</p>
<p>Nate showed up at 3:00 a.m. the next morning and demanded the keys to the van or he would have us all arrested. My father gave him the keys and told him to get off his property or he’d be arrested for trespassing. I was crying over the loss of the van the next day when I got word that Nate had been at the children’s school and demanded to see his children. The principal brought them to the gym for a meeting, and Nate picked up little Moriah and ran, with the principal chasing him. The principal called me and the police, and I followed my former family van out of town in my mom’s car while having a panic attack. The police pulled Nate over but then let him go, because I had no custody papers.</p>
<p>The police had to pick me up out of a muddy ditch where I had collapsed, weeping, as my little girl was legally abducted. In Virginia, even if you have custody (which I didn’t), any parent who has visitation rights can abduct a child from anywhere at any time, and they are guilty of, at the most, a second-degree misdemeanor. Parental kidnappers are never subject to arrest in Virginia unless they cross state lines. It is believed that most of our missing children are missing because they were abducted by non-custodial parents. When your child is abducted by a parent who has any parental rights at all, your only recourse is to file a show cause and go to court. I would have to regain custody in Virginia Beach.</p>
<p>I got a lawyer in Virginia Beach and filed for divorce and custody. My attorney bills went into the stratosphere within a month. As with my former lawyer, phone calls and faxes were unceasing. One Sunday afternoon my lawyer received a 52-page fax from Nate. The personal injury suit was scheduled for trial as well.</p>
<p>I would not see my little girl again for nine weeks.</p>
<p>I had landed in the hall of mirrors commonly known as the juvenile justice system, and its machinations were limited only by the time and energy of a man possessed, a man running on sheer rage. Only with me, it would never stop with juvenile court. In fact—and I’m thankful I did not know this in 2000—it <em>would never stop at all.</em> When Nate said he would avail himself of every legal procedure available, and appeal every negative decision all the way up, he was making the only promises to me that he’s ever kept.</p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1079">Discuss this post on the NLQ forum!</a></em></p>
<p><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/nlqstories/tess-willoughby/">Read all posts by Tess Willoughby!</a></strong></p>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>A Love That Multiplies ~ The Duggar&#8217;s New Book</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/08/11/a-love-that-multiplies-the-duggars-new-book/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/08/11/a-love-that-multiplies-the-duggars-new-book/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Aug 2011 13:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[A Love That Multiplies by JimBob & Michelle Duggar]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=12349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<strong><em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1439183813?ie=UTF8&#38;tag=familiesthatflou&#38;linkCode=shr&#38;camp=213733&#38;creative=393185&#38;creativeASIN=1439183813" rel="attachment wp-att-13940"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-13940" title="Love that Multiplies" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Love-that-Multiplies.jpeg" alt="" width="132" height="198" /></a><img style="border: none !important; margin: 0px !important;" src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=familiesthatflou&#38;l=as2&#38;o=1&#38;a=1439183813&#38;camp=217145&#38;creative=399373" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" />by </em></strong><a href="http://hopewellmomschoolreborn.blogspot.com/"><strong>Hop</strong><em><strong>ewell</strong></em></a>

Regular readers of this blog know that I watch TLC's "19 Kids and Counting--" a reality show featuring the family of Jim-B0b and Michelle Duggar. I make some people very happy with my blog posts on this family and get flames from others. Such is life!! So, when I spotted a used copy of their new book so I could "buy used and save the difference," just like the Duggar's recommend, I knew I'd have to review it here!

Like everything Duggar there is much to admire here: some good tips about listening to your children, listening to your spouse, spending time as a family, spending time in God's word, gathering together with other believers, living debt free, controlling your anger, modeling good behavior, drawing close in times of crisis, and looking for learning opportunities all around you.

<strong>A Season of Re-Runs:</strong>

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1439183813?ie=UTF8&#38;tag=familiesthatflou&#38;linkCode=shr&#38;camp=213733&#38;creative=393185&#38;creativeASIN=1439183813">This book</a>, however, does have a few flaws that need examining. First: repeat, repeat, repeat! Much of this book is a virtual transcript of several recent episodes of "19 Kids and Counting" (or it's previous incarnations). If the reader has never seen an episode it might be new, but I doubt it. Like any politician, Jim-Bob "stays on message." You can find nearly everything in this book in other radio or podcast interviews, newspaper or magazine stories or blog posts.

Another big problem is that this book, when not repeating everything said in the past, is a public relations exercise. Nearly everything the Duggars have ever been criticized for on message boards, blogs, in the press--it all gets "answered" here. Don't expect any shocking answers! Jim-Bob stays on message.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/08/11/a-love-that-multiplies-the-duggars-new-book/love-that-multiplies/" rel="attachment wp-att-13940"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-13940" title="Love that Multiplies" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Love-that-Multiplies.jpeg" alt="" width="132" height="198" /></a><img style="border: none !important; margin: 0px !important;" src="http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=familiesthatflou&amp;l=as2&amp;o=1&amp;a=1439183813&amp;camp=217145&amp;creative=399373" alt="" width="1" height="1" border="0" />by </em></strong><a href="http://hopewellmomschoolreborn.blogspot.com/"><strong>Hop</strong><em><strong>ewell</strong></em></a></p>
<p>Regular readers of this blog know that I watch TLC&#8217;s &#8220;19 Kids and Counting&#8211;&#8221; a reality show featuring the family of Jim-B0b and Michelle Duggar. I make some people very happy with my blog posts on this family and get flames from others. Such is life!! So, when I spotted a used copy of their new book so I could &#8220;buy used and save the difference,&#8221; just like the Duggar&#8217;s recommend, I knew I&#8217;d have to review it here!</p>
<p>Like everything Duggar there is much to admire here: some good tips about listening to your children, listening to your spouse, spending time as a family, spending time in God&#8217;s word, gathering together with other believers, living debt free, controlling your anger, modeling good behavior, drawing close in times of crisis, and looking for learning opportunities all around you.</p>
<p><strong>A Season of Re-Runs:</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1439183813?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=familiesthatflou&amp;linkCode=shr&amp;camp=213733&amp;creative=393185&amp;creativeASIN=1439183813">This book</a>, however, does have a few flaws that need examining. First: repeat, repeat, repeat! Much of this book is a virtual transcript of several recent episodes of &#8220;19 Kids and Counting&#8221; (or it&#8217;s previous incarnations). If the reader has never seen an episode it might be new, but I doubt it. Like any politician, Jim-Bob &#8220;stays on message.&#8221; You can find nearly everything in this book in other radio or podcast interviews, newspaper or magazine stories or blog posts.</p>
<p>Another big problem is that this book, when not repeating everything said in the past, is a public relations exercise. Nearly everything the Duggars have ever been criticized for on message boards, blogs, in the press&#8211;it all gets &#8220;answered&#8221; here. Don&#8217;t expect any shocking answers! Jim-Bob stays on message.</p>
<p><strong>Answering the Critics:</strong></p>
<p><strong>Josie&#8217;s birth:</strong></p>
<p>The Duggars acknowledge that Josie&#8217;s birth put the biggest strain ever on their marriage. The demands of Mom being at the hospital with the baby, Dad trying to keep his real estate business and the rest of the family going in a new house with great limitations for their family, was tough. The endless strain, too, of the very real health problems Josie went thru and the never-ceasing demands of her 17 youngest brothers and sisters were very, very hard to cope with. They give all credit to God and to their strong faith in Him to see them through.</p>
<p>They also clear up misunderstandings about her medical bills. The Duggars HAVE health insurance. Ironically, Jim-Bob had been considering whether it was really worth the thousands of dollars per year to continue their coverage. Josie&#8217;s birth took away those doubts&#8211;probably forever! He had to pay both the 2009 and 2010 deductibles. That&#8217;s it.</p>
<p><strong>Food: veggies and whole grains</strong></p>
<p>In my previous posts, and in posts in other venues, I have often said that we only see on &#8220;19 Kids and Counting&#8221; what the editors want us to see. So, I wasn&#8217;t at all surprised that food, one of the things for which the Duggars are constantly harped at, was a big deal in this book. No, they clearly don&#8217;t exist only on Tater Tot Casserole and half-cooked Ramen noodles! There are recipes sprinkled throughout the book that demonstrate the &#8220;depth&#8221; of Duggar cuisine. Too bad the <a href="http://store.iblp.org/products/NGWC/">cookbook they recommend</a> is only for sale on the ATI/IBLP website&#8211;I would have enjoyed trying it if it was widely available.</p>
<p>The Duggars are, by now, probably world famous for their love of pickles! They like canned veggies spritzed with vinegar as a quick snack as well as the normal fresh fruits, veggies that we all enjoy. I was pleased to see the Duggar kids, like my two, love lemons and limes just much as they do other fruits! For those who enjoy trying recipes with interesting ingredients there is an apple dumpling recipe made with Sprite or Mountain Dew!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/Images/Bosch%20Images/Bosch%20Universal%20Plus%20250op%203_bl.jpg"><img class="alignleft" style="border: 0px initial initial;" src="http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/Images/Bosch%20Images/Bosch%20Universal%20Plus%20250op%203_bl.jpg" alt="" width="180" height="133" border="0" /></a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to envision an ATI family NOT owning a <a href="http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/Bosch_Universal_Plus_Mixer_MUM6N10UC.aspx">Bosch universal mixer </a>and the Duggars, apparently, make good use of theirs. They reprint in full, with recommendations on the types of wheat they like best, the recipe for making whole grain bread in the Bosch. While everyone criticizes so much of their diet, I HAVE noticed that we never see them piling on tray after tray of spongy white bread at Aldis. Instead they seem to always buy &#8220;decent&#8221; whole wheat bread from somewhere like Sam&#8217;s or Costco. In this they are far ahead of many families. Apparently many of the Duggar kids, boys included, enjoy baking this bread. That&#8217;s nice to hear.</p>
<p><strong>College:</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41vNLedjqiL._SL500_AA300_.jpg"><img class="alignleft" style="border: 0px initial initial;" src="http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41vNLedjqiL._SL500_AA300_.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="300" border="0" /></a> While the Duggars have always maintained it&#8217;s fine for their children to go to college, the route chosen thru an arrangement called &#8220;<a href="http://www.collegeplus.org/">College Plus</a>,&#8221; suggests otherwise. College is not a a popular option&#8211;more like an occasional necessary evil, in most ATI families. &#8220;College Plus&#8221; is mostly a re-packaging of the <a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/clep/about.html">College Level Examination Program</a> (CLEP) added to life experience credits. Most colleges have limits to how many credits can be earned in this way. I believe, however, thru this book, the Duggars are preparing the way for one of their children, likely one of the big girls, to go to a &#8220;real&#8221; local college to finish a nursing degree.</p>
<p>ATI has a program called <a href="http://verityinstitute.org/">&#8220;Verity&#8221; </a>which even provides an &#8220;on campus&#8221; version of a College-Plus-type approach to &#8220;college.&#8221; Students go to one of the ATI centers in Indianapolis to study and then pass CLEP tests giving them a limited college-like experience of living in a dormitory and interacting with other students&#8230;..all of whom believe like them and come from families exactly like theirs. Certainly not typical of any college I&#8217;ve been associated with&#8211;including the Christian one! Still, it is an option that does lead to an accredited degree.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not surprising that both College Plus and Verity stress ideas dear to the Duggars&#8211;money and &#8220;protection&#8221; from the world. College Plus&#8221;[recognizes] the potential dangers, expense, and lack of efficiency in the traditional model for higher education.&#8221; (website) &#8220;Verity helps students avoid the pitfalls of traditional college campuses such as non-Christian professors, secular humanism, and loose campus morals. (website).</p>
<p><strong>Dating:</strong></p>
<p>Like most ultra-conservative Christian families today, the Duggars don&#8217;t &#8220;do&#8221; dating&#8211;except after they&#8217;re married (i.e., &#8220;date night&#8221;). They prefer &#8220;Courtship&#8221;&#8211;as shown on &#8220;17 Kids and Counting&#8221; when Josh and Anna were courting. It&#8217;s a highly supervised way of getting to know each other that mostly leads to marriage. Occasionally a courtship will be broken for a spiritual reason or similar. The Duggars stress &#8220;purity&#8221; and &#8220;not giving away pieces of your heart.&#8221; They helpfully reproduce a composite list of what their four eldest daughters are looking for in possible suitors. None of it is far fetched and much of it is common sense. They just choose a much more parent-controlled approach to meeting a spouse. Which is fascinating because Jim-Bob and Michelle dated and seem to have a darned good marriage.</p>
<p><strong>Kids Raising Kids:</strong></p>
<p>Another place they seemed to be answering critics was child care. On TV we have seen, until the most recent season, mostly the four eldest girls running the house, cooking, taking care of the little kids. In the book, the Duggars go to great lengths to show the depth of Michelle&#8217;s involvement with her children&#8211;especially homeschooling. (Did you know Michelle once worked as a substitute teacher in their local public schools? ) I feel strongly this is an area where we have seen mostly what the editors want us to see, but I also believe the girls have to do way, way too much.</p>
<p><strong>Mr. Duggar, Senior&#8217;s, funeral:</strong></p>
<p>The Duggars were badly abused in the press for allowing his father to be filmed in such a fragile condition and then for allowing the preparations for his funeral, and parts of the service itself, to be shown on TV. I am among those who felt this was exploitation and nothing else. I saw the faces of his mother&#8217;s friends coming to comfort her and how angry some were at the intrusion. This was wrong and nothing Jim-Bob writes about it showing their faith can change my opinion. This was wildly insensitive to his poor mother and to the extended family. No, Jim-Bob, sorry, this is not the same as showing Josh &amp; Anna&#8217; s courtship and wedding. Yes, it&#8217;s a natural part of life, but there are limits. Sorry, no pass on this one!</p>
<p><strong>Disappointment:</strong></p>
<p>Overall, as regular viewer of their show and having read their earlier book, this new book was a major disappointment. When I saw in one episode, that Michelle was journaling about Josie&#8217;s birth and struggles, I knew a book was coming. Sadly, this is not that book! There is good stuff if you are brand new to the Duggars. But what is most glaring is what is left out: the teachings of the Advanced Training Institute and Bill Gothard. You cannot tell me that the world-wide face of ATI, the Duggar Family of Arkansas, just &#8220;takes the good&#8221; and rejects the bad in ATI. No way, no how. Yet nowhere is there the &#8220;Umbrella of Authority&#8221; or father as the only one God speaks to or any of the other things taught in the Basic and Advanced Seminars or in other materials from the organization. No where do they mention the downright goofy teachings on names and health or some of the bizarre things in the <a href="http://ati.iblp.org/ati/family/curriculum/contentoverview/">Wisdom Booklets</a> or<a href="http://iblp.org/iblp/discipleship/totalhealth/carebulletins/series1/1-5/"> health bulletins.</a> What is presented are the few, very few, things that most mainstream Christians at least can agree to.</p>
<p>Their attempt to shrug off their Old Testament legalism for example is dismissed this way:</p>
<p>&#8220;As Christians we aren&#8217;t bound by Old Testament law, but we&#8217;ve found that some of the practices laid down all those years ago by our biblical ancestors still have merit today.&#8221; (p.18)</p>
<p>To me this is amazingly arrogant! So, what, Jesus died so you don&#8217;t have to obey this stuff, but you think you know better??? Wow.</p>
<p><strong>Are They Quiverfull?</strong></p>
<p>Well, by their thinking NO. They are free to call themselves what they like, but for a family so focused on &#8220;<a href="http://ati.iblp.org/ati/family/curriculum/characterqualities.pdf?show=true">operational definitions</a>,&#8221; I think they need to see that they meet ALL the criteria so I stand by my post &#8220;<a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/03/08/nlq-faq-are-jim-bob-michelle-duggar-quiverfull/">Are Jim-Bob &amp; Michelle Duggar Quiverfull</a>&#8221; which leads to the very obvious answer, &#8220;YES.&#8221; So would anyone be who follows Gothard&#8217;s teachings to the letter!</p>
<p><strong>The good surprises:</strong></p>
<p>I was touched to hear a few of the stories they shared in the book. One of the older boys calls home to tell Mom about the El Salvador trip and how he feels God calling him to be a missionary. That&#8217;s sweet and, while I hope they asked him before they shared it, it does show us Michelle&#8217;s connection to her kids. The Duggars have given their kids a life-changing education by taking them on these trips. I for one say it&#8217;s money well spent. (For the record I also truly admire them for working to make adoption an easier and faster process in El Salvador. And, I fully support their work for charity&#8211;I do believe they are 100% sincere in this work and more families should follow their example to work for causes they believe in.)</p>
<p>I was almost crying reading about the prayer sessions the family held for Josie and Michelle. I can just picture all those kids tearfully praying for God to heal their mother and the new baby. No matter the reason, losing a mother is a life-altering tragedy to be prevented in most cases. The terror those kids had to have felt was very, very real when I read the story.<a href="http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MM%2B5z5JvL._SL500_AA300_.jpg"><img class="alignleft" style="border: 0px initial initial;" src="http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MM%2B5z5JvL._SL500_AA300_.jpg" alt="" width="270" height="270" border="0" /></a><br />
I laughed out loud and gave Josh an &#8220;at-a-boy&#8221; for buying up the clearance-rack Big Mouth Billy Bass toys! Read the story to find out more. The Duggars have certainly raised their kids to know how to earn a buck when they need it! That&#8217;s something very few parents can be bothered to do today. I give Jim-Bob extremely high marks for the &#8220;efficient&#8221; ways he has found to support his family. Too many of us are too scared to leave a 40-hour a week job with benefits even though the outcome is not necessarily bad at all. His example gives courage to those wanting to be with their families more and to those who feel imprisoned by &#8220;jobs.&#8221;</p>
<p>So to recap, they tell some interesting stories, give us information on their habits, etc., that aren&#8217;t necessarily shown on TV, try to justify some less than great choices and soft-peddle the less-mainstream ideas of Bill Gothard&#8217;s ATI and continue to model very, very close family life without discussion of whether or not their adult children do honestly choose the life they are living.</p>
<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1032">Discuss this post on the NLQ forum!</a> Comments are also open below.</p>
<p><strong><em>More from Hopewell:</em></strong></p>
<p><em><a href="http://quiverfullmyblog.wordpress.com/">A FULL QUIVER OF INFORMATION</a> [my information only site]<br />
<a href="http://hopewellmomschoolreborn.blogspot.com/">Personal Blog</a></em></p>
<h3><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/hopewell/">Read all posts by Hopewell!</a></h3>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>Family Driven Faith ~ Part 2: It Is Good to Be Free</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/08/04/family-driven-faith-part-2-it-is-good-to-be-free/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/08/04/family-driven-faith-part-2-it-is-good-to-be-free/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Aug 2011 15:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Atheism]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Family Driven Faith: A Former Independent Fundamental Baptist Pastor's Perspective on Biblical Manhood & Womanhood]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[<h3>A Former Independent Fundamental Baptist Pastor’s Perspective on Biblical Manhood &#38; Womanhood</h3>
<h3><a rel="attachment wp-att-12065" href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/06/28/family-driven-faith-gods-highest-calling/by-the-book-an-ex-ifb-pastors-perspective-on-the-biblical-family/"><img class="alignleft" title="By The Book An ex-IFB Pastor's Perspective on The Biblical Family" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/By-The-Book-An-ex-IFB-Pastors-Perspective-on-The-Biblical-Family.jpg" alt="" width="114" height="134" /></a><span style="color: #008000;">by Bruce Gerencser</span></h3>
As an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) pastor I taught that the Bible clearly defined the roles of men (husbands), women (wives), and children. (a hierarchy) The Bible was clear; the husband is the head of the home and the wife is commanded to submit to the authority and rule of her husband. Like the pastor in the church, the husband is the final authority in the home. It matters not if he is worthy of such responsibility. A husband is disobedient to God if he refuses to be the head of the home. The wife, if she refuses to submit to her husband’s authority, is a Jezebel and risks the judgment of God.

I taught women that God’s highest calling for them was marriage, having children, and keeping the home. I discouraged women from going to college. After all why waste money going to college if you are going to be busy having children and keeping the home.

I taught men that God’s highest calling for them was to be leaders. Men were called to lead the church and the home. (and lead the government) The strength or weakness of any culture, church, or home depended on whether or not men were fulfilling their divine calling to lead.

Children were at the bottom of the hierarchical system. They were under the authority of God, the Bible, the pastor, their father, and their mother. (And according to my sons, the oldest brother) Children had one divine calling in life, obey!

This kind of hierarchical family structure has been a part of American society since the day the Pilgrims stepped ashore on the eastern coast of America. Over time, due to social, political, and economic pressures the hierarchical family structure was weakened. As women gained the right to vote, began working outside of the home, and began using birth control, they realized they could live without being under the control and the authority of a man. Modern American women are free to pursue their own life path, free to live lives independent of men. When women marry they are no longer considered the helpmeet. They are equal partners in the marriage. Their values, beliefs, and opinions matter.

However, in the IFB church movement women still live in the 18th century. Bound by commands and teachings from an antiquated book, they live lives strangely and sadly out of touch with the modern world. Every aspect of family life is controlled by what the Bible teaches. (or what an authoritarian Pastor and authoritarian husband/father say the Bible teaches)

I have no objections to a women willingly choosing to live and participate in a hierarchical family structure. If an Amish woman wants to live as the Amish do then I have no reason or right to object. (though it is difficult to determine if they willingly choose. Is it a free choice when there are no other options?)

For my family and I moving away from a hierarchical family structure was difficult. We had to relearn how to live. We had to examine sincerely held beliefs and determine if they still were applicable to the new way we wanted to live our lives.

I realized that I had lorded over my family. I had dominated and controlled their lives, all in the name of Jesus. By doing so I had robbed them of the ability to live their lives independently of my control. Every decision had to have my stamp of approval. Nothing escaped my purview. After all, God had commanded me to be the head of the home. Someday I would give an account to God for how I managed the affairs of my family. I took the threat of judgment seriously.

The biggest problem we faced was that since I was the one who always made the final decision my children and wife lacked the skills necessary to make good decisions. My children quickly adapted to their new found freedom, shouting a Martin Luther King Jr. like <strong>FREE FREE AT LAST</strong>, however my wife did not fare so well.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<h3>A Former Independent Fundamental Baptist Pastor’s Perspective on Biblical Manhood &amp; Womanhood</h3>
<h3><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/06/28/family-driven-faith-gods-highest-calling/by-the-book-an-ex-ifb-pastors-perspective-on-the-biblical-family/" rel="attachment wp-att-12065"><img class="alignleft" title="By The Book An ex-IFB Pastor's Perspective on The Biblical Family" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/By-The-Book-An-ex-IFB-Pastors-Perspective-on-The-Biblical-Family.jpg" alt="" width="114" height="134" /></a><span style="color: #008000;">by Bruce Gerencser</span></h3>
<p>As an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) pastor I taught that the Bible clearly defined the roles of men (husbands), women (wives), and children. (a hierarchy) The Bible was clear; the husband is the head of the home and the wife is commanded to submit to the authority and rule of her husband. Like the pastor in the church, the husband is the final authority in the home. It matters not if he is worthy of such responsibility. A husband is disobedient to God if he refuses to be the head of the home. The wife, if she refuses to submit to her husband’s authority, is a Jezebel and risks the judgment of God.</p>
<p>I taught women that God’s highest calling for them was marriage, having children, and keeping the home. I discouraged women from going to college. After all why waste money going to college if you are going to be busy having children and keeping the home.</p>
<p>I taught men that God’s highest calling for them was to be leaders. Men were called to lead the church and the home. (and lead the government) The strength or weakness of any culture, church, or home depended on whether or not men were fulfilling their divine calling to lead.</p>
<p>Children were at the bottom of the hierarchical system. They were under the authority of God, the Bible, the pastor, their father, and their mother. (And according to my sons, the oldest brother) Children had one divine calling in life, obey!</p>
<p>This kind of hierarchical family structure has been a part of American society since the day the Pilgrims stepped ashore on the eastern coast of America. Over time, due to social, political, and economic pressures the hierarchical family structure was weakened. As women gained the right to vote, began working outside of the home, and began using birth control, they realized they could live without being under the control and the authority of a man. Modern American women are free to pursue their own life path, free to live lives independent of men. When women marry they are no longer considered the helpmeet. They are equal partners in the marriage. Their values, beliefs, and opinions matter.</p>
<p>However, in the IFB church movement women still live in the 18th century. Bound by commands and teachings from an antiquated book, they live lives strangely and sadly out of touch with the modern world. Every aspect of family life is controlled by what the Bible teaches. (or what an authoritarian Pastor and authoritarian husband/father say the Bible teaches)</p>
<p>I have no objections to a women willingly choosing to live and participate in a hierarchical family structure. If an Amish woman wants to live as the Amish do then I have no reason or right to object. (though it is difficult to determine if they willingly choose. Is it a free choice when there are no other options?)</p>
<p>For my family and I moving away from a hierarchical family structure was difficult. We had to relearn how to live. We had to examine sincerely held beliefs and determine if they still were applicable to the new way we wanted to live our lives.</p>
<p>I realized that I had lorded over my family. I had dominated and controlled their lives, all in the name of Jesus. By doing so I had robbed them of the ability to live their lives independently of my control. Every decision had to have my stamp of approval. Nothing escaped my purview. After all, God had commanded me to be the head of the home. Someday I would give an account to God for how I managed the affairs of my family. I took the threat of judgment seriously.</p>
<p>The biggest problem we faced was that since I was the one who always made the final decision my children and wife lacked the skills necessary to make good decisions. My children quickly adapted to their new found freedom, shouting a Martin Luther King Jr. like <strong>FREE FREE AT LAST</strong>, however my wife did not fare so well.</p>
<p>Raised in a fundamentalist home, her father a IFB pastor, Polly had spent her entire life under the thumb of someone else. She rarely had to make a decision because there was always someone else making decisions for her.</p>
<p>To say our new found life was difficult for Polly would be a gross underestimation. Suddenly she was forced to make decisions on her own. For a time she panicked when faced with making a decision on her own. Simple decisions, like what to order at the Fast Food drive-thru or whether or not to put gas in the car, were monumental decisions for her.(1)</p>
<p>Over time Polly’s decision making skills improved. Several years ago she was promoted to a supervisory position at work. (2) One night she came home from work all upset. She told me that she had made a decision about something and several people were now upset at her. I laughed… I told her….<em>rule number one about making decisions. You will likely piss someone off</em>. (3)</p>
<p>Two years ago Polly returned to college. She struggled at first, and it took quite a bit of willpower for me not to bail her out, but over time she adapted to using the computer (she was computer illiterate) and doing the various things necessary to be a good college student. She graduates next Spring. It will be a proud and happy moment when she walks the aisle on graduation day.</p>
<p>Polly was over 40 years old before she ever wore her first pair of pants. Same goes for going to the movie theater, drinking alcohol, cutting her hair short, reading a non-Christian romance novel, etc, etc, etc. As many people know the IFB movement is all about what a Christian <strong>CAN’T</strong> do. Some of these choices were fearful choices, God lurking in the shadows of the mind, ready to punish her for making<em>“sinful” choices.”</em></p>
<p>With change comes new life.In many ways we have been <em>“born again.”</em> In 2005 I left the pastorate and we began a slow, painful process of examining our Christian beliefs.. For many years my family believed what I believed, went to church when I went to church, and obeyed any and every command I gave, complete with proof texts from the Bible . Now it was different.</p>
<p>I told my wife and six children that I was setting them free. I was no longer going to be the spiritual head of the home. I was no longer going to be the spiritual patriarch of the family. They were free to be whatever they wanted to be. I sincerely meant this. If they wanted to be Wiccans I was fine with it. The bottom line was this….I wanted them to be happy. If they are happy I am happy.</p>
<p>This last decision has caused quite a bit of controversy and conflict. Freed from my control the entire family quickly abandoned the Evangelical church. I am now an atheist, Polly is an agnostic, and our children, for the most part do not attend church. (4) Religion is still a big topic of discussion in our family. I still like a rousing debate and discussion about religion, politics, or sports. The difference now is that there is no test of fidelity. No, “<em>did you guys go to church today</em>?” No, <em>“what was the sermon about?”</em></p>
<p>Our family is a work in progress. As my wife continues to learn to make decisions I also have to learn to not make decisions. I have to learn to shut up and allow people to make choices for themselves, even when I think their choices are bad. I have a new rule I live by:<em> If I think someone is making a bad decision on an important issue I will voice my opinion but that is the end of it.</em> I stay out of my children’s business. They are responsible adults and I support whatever decision they make, even if I disagree with it.</p>
<p>We are far from a finished product. Polly still freezes at the drive-thru and I still know what I want before we pull into the restaurant. We still have the same peculiar character traits we have always had. You know……….those things that annoy and bug you. The difference now is that we have learned to embrace the peculiarities and we realize that our peculiarities are what make us unique individuals. (5)</p>
<p>It is good to be free.</p>
<p>(1) Even today she freezes at the drive-thru. We joke about it now but her freezing hails from a day when I ordered everything.</p>
<p>(2) One of the first steps of freedom for Polly was her getting a job, A job that she has held since 1997.</p>
<p>(3) I was well suited for the hierarchical family system and the pastorate. I am not afraid to make decisions. Snap decisions come easy for me. It felt very natural to me to make all the decisions. However, in the home, like at work, one person making all the decisions stunts the growth of other people and when they are put into a position where they must make a decision they are often unable to.</p>
<p>(4) I am hesitant to label my children’s current beliefs. Two of my children nominally attend the Catholic church with their wives. My other four children, for the most part, do not attend church. I would not classify them as atheists or even agnostics. They are still figuring out what they believe. It is exciting to watch, even if the IFB part of our extended family thinks we are committing spiritual suicide.</p>
<p>(5) I have Obsessive Compulsive Personality (OCP) and Polly is happy with clutter. This is a match made in hell. <img src="https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&amp;ik=ca94181c8c&amp;view=att&amp;th=131726d4dd8a3f6a&amp;attid=0.1&amp;disp=emb&amp;zw" alt="Smile" /> For many years my OCP dominated everything. I have had to learn that what I have every right to want things perfectly ordered, everything in it place, Polly also has the right not to want things perfectly ordered, everything in it place. We each have personal spaces where we are free to practice our peculiar habits and traits. We know to stay out of each others “<em>stuff</em>”. In the common spaces we try to find a happy medium though I must admit I have a hard time doing this. I put the following on the message board in the kitchen recently<em> “Last Warning!! The table is not a catch-all.”</em> Our three youngest children have followed after their mother so they tend to use the dining room table as a catch-all. This drives me crazy. <img src="https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&amp;ik=ca94181c8c&amp;view=att&amp;th=131726d4dd8a3f6a&amp;attid=0.1&amp;disp=emb&amp;zw" alt="Smile" /></p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1004">Discuss this post on the NLQ forum! </a> Comments are also open below.</em></p>
<h3><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/nlqstories/bruce-gerencser/">Read all posts by Bruce Gerencser!</a></h3>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/06/28/family-driven-faith-gods-highest-calling/sony-dsc-2/" rel="attachment wp-att-12081"><img class="alignleft" title="SONY DSC" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Family-Driven-Faith-Bruce-Gerencser1.jpg" alt="" width="180" height="175" /></a>Bruce Gerencser spent 25 years pastoring Independent Fundamental Baptist, Southern Baptist, and Christian Union churches in Ohio, Michigan, and Texas. Bruce attended Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan. He is a writer and operates the </em><a href="http://fallenfromgrace.net/"><em>Fallen from Grace</em></a><em> blog. Bruce lives in NW Ohio with his wife of 32 years. They have 6 children, and five grandchildren.</em></p>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>Sons of Patriarchy</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/07/08/sons-of-patriarchy/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/07/08/sons-of-patriarchy/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2011 16:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=12273</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<a rel="attachment wp-att-12274" href="http://nolongerquivering.com/?attachment_id=12274"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-12274" title="Vison Forum Sons of Patriarchy" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Vison-Forum-Sons-of-Patriarchy.jpg" alt="" width="83" height="81" /></a><strong><em><span style="color: #008000;">by Libby Anne</span></em></strong>

Yes yes, I know I said <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/06/17/its-about-the-daughters/">it’s about the daughters</a>, but it’s actually about the sons too, and here’s why: Christian Patriarchy may say its about creating the perfect godly family, but, at its heart, it’s about control. Yes, that sounds kind of harsh! Let me explain.

In Christian Patriarchy, parents don’t let their children grow up and leave and make their own decisions. Instead, parents seek to control their adult children. The system only works if everyone stays in their place and does as told. The moment there is an independent thought or contrary life goal, it all falls apart.

Where do the sons come into this? It’s simple. I have brothers, and while things have been much smoother for them than they were for me or my sister, it hasn’t all been fun and games. My mother disapproves of my oldest brother because he didn’t join the military. It says something about his character, apparently. This is small hat compared to the emotional manipulation another of my brothers has experienced because my parents don’t approve of his plans for his life. Why? Because he wants to join military the wrong type of military.

This is the point I am trying to make here:<strong> the sons of patriarchy, just like the daughters, will only be smiled on so long as they believe what their parents believe and do what their parents want them to do. </strong>As soon as they have an independent thought or a contrary life plan, it’s all over.  

I do have one brother who is my parents’ golden boy. Why? Because he is doing everything my parents want, and leading exactly the life they want for him, down to his chosen career path and which college he is attending. I used to be like that, basking in the glow of my parents’ approval. And then I began changing my mind on doctrinal points they considered critical and told them “no” when they told me to break up with a young man they had decided was a bad influence. <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/07/02/the-beautiful-girlhood-doll-part-9-the-broken-doll/">I went from golden girl to outcast in one single day.</a>

The real irony here is that both of my parents broke with their parents when they began homeschooling us. Neither set of grandparents approved, but my parents said too bad. My parents weren’t raised this way, but rather left the beliefs of their parents and started out on their own. This is actually fairly common among the parents of Christian Patriarchy. Why, then, do they refuse to let their children think and act for themselves?

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/07/08/sons-of-patriarchy/vison-forum-sons-of-patriarchy/" rel="attachment wp-att-12274"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-12274" title="Vison Forum Sons of Patriarchy" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Vison-Forum-Sons-of-Patriarchy.jpg" alt="" width="83" height="81" /></a><strong><em><span style="color: #008000;">by Libby Anne</span></em></strong></p>
<p>Yes yes, I know I said <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/06/17/its-about-the-daughters/">it’s about the daughters</a>, but it’s actually about the sons too, and here’s why: Christian Patriarchy may say its about creating the perfect godly family, but, at its heart, it’s about control. Yes, that sounds kind of harsh! Let me explain.</p>
<p>In Christian Patriarchy, parents don’t let their children grow up and leave and make their own decisions. Instead, parents seek to control their adult children. The system only works if everyone stays in their place and does as told. The moment there is an independent thought or contrary life goal, it all falls apart.</p>
<p>Where do the sons come into this? It’s simple. I have brothers, and while things have been much smoother for them than they were for me or my sister, it hasn’t all been fun and games. My mother disapproves of my oldest brother because he didn’t join the military. It says something about his character, apparently. This is small hat compared to the emotional manipulation another of my brothers has experienced because my parents don’t approve of his plans for his life. Why? Because he wants to join military the wrong type of military.</p>
<p>This is the point I am trying to make here:<strong> the sons of patriarchy, just like the daughters, will only be smiled on so long as they believe what their parents believe and do what their parents want them to do. </strong>As soon as they have an independent thought or a contrary life plan, it’s all over.</p>
<p>I do have one brother who is my parents’ golden boy. Why? Because he is doing everything my parents want, and leading exactly the life they want for him, down to his chosen career path and which college he is attending. I used to be like that, basking in the glow of my parents’ approval. And then I began changing my mind on doctrinal points they considered critical and told them “no” when they told me to break up with a young man they had decided was a bad influence. <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/07/02/the-beautiful-girlhood-doll-part-9-the-broken-doll/">I went from golden girl to outcast in one single day.</a></p>
<p>The real irony here is that both of my parents broke with their parents when they began homeschooling us. Neither set of grandparents approved, but my parents said too bad. My parents weren’t raised this way, but rather left the beliefs of their parents and started out on their own. This is actually fairly common among the parents of Christian Patriarchy. Why, then, do they refuse to let their children think and act for themselves?</p>
<p>Because the parents of Christian Patriarchy think they have found the perfect formula to life. They think they know everything, that they have it figured out completely. They think they hold the copyright for the definition of the word “Christian.” If you stay inside their box, you’re all right; if you step outside of it, you’re damned. It’s all about control, about keeping you on the way they think you should go.</p>
<p>As I watch my brother try to navigate the most trying years of a young person’s life on his own, I can’t help but shed a tear for all the sons of patriarchy. If you are one of them, let me assure you, there is nothing that will make your parents happy except doing exactly what they want. So don’t even try. Make your own life, your own way, your own decisions, your own hopes and dreams, and leave the box your parents built for you. The world is a much bigger and richer place outside.</p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=889">Discuss this post on the NLQ forum!</a>  Comments are also open below.</em></p>
<p><em>Libby Anne lives with her husband and toddler somewhere in the U.S. She has left patriarchy for feminism and has found freedom. She is a graduate student with big plans for her life. You can read her blog at <a href="http://lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/">Love</a></em><a href="http://lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/">, Joy, Feminism.</a></p>
<h3><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/nlqstories/libby-anne/">Read all posts by Libby Anne!</a></h3>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>The Beautiful Girlhood Doll ~ Part 10: I Am a Person, Not a Doll!</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/07/04/the-beautiful-girlhood-doll-part-10-i-am-a-person-not-a-doll/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/07/04/the-beautiful-girlhood-doll-part-10-i-am-a-person-not-a-doll/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jul 2011 13:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=12180</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<div><strong><em><span style="color: #008000;"><a rel="attachment wp-att-12181" href="http://nolongerquivering.com/?attachment_id=12181"><img class="size-full wp-image-12181 aligncenter" title="dollhouse" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/dollhouse.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="500" /></a>by Libby Anne</span></em></strong></div>
<div>

It has now been some years since I left my parents’ house and shifted for myself. I think my parents were somewhat surprised that I was able to make it on my own and that I did not come home asking for help, or maybe it was just me who was surprised. I found inner sources of strength I had not known I had. At the same time, my college friends, both the original evangelical ones and new ones I had met, were a wonderful source of support, and always accepted me regardless of what I did or didn’t believe. I finished college on my own, and was extremely proud at graduation.

During this time I also found someone special, and I married him not long after finishing college. Because I was marrying someone who did not share their beliefs, my parents did not approve, but then I did not expect them to. My siblings were not allowed to be in my wedding, and I walked myself down the aisle with my head held high. My friends and in-laws made my wedding a time of great joy, but my heart still broke years later when one of my little brothers was exulting at being a ring bearer in one of my siblings’ weddings, and all I could think was, I did want you for my ring bearer, little brother, please don’t think I didn’t. But I couldn’t tell him that, I couldn’t explain what had happened. Remembering that moment still brings tears to my eyes, even now.

Early on, there was some question about whether my new husband and I would be allowed to visit my parents and siblings. After all, what kind of example were we setting? This question was resolved, though, when we chose to become pregnant and have a child. The presence of a grandchild has improved my relationship with my parents, though it has also created new problems as they do not always agree with the way I am raising my little one.

Another factor that has improved my relationship with my parents is their belief that my husband is my authority, and that they should therefore seek to change his views rather than mine. At the same time, though, my husband is a man and not their physical child, so there is a level of emotional distance and respect present that there is not with me. Thus my parents simultaneously leave my beliefs alone and at the same time work to respectfully persuade my husband that he should change his beliefs. Of course, this makes me want to laugh, because my husband and I have an egalitarian relationship, and we frequently disagree with each other without seeing it as a problem.

Regardless of the reasons for the softening of my relationship with my parents, I am grateful that I can still be a part of my siblings’ lives. However, my relationship with my parents will never be the same, and the pain of what happened will never go away.

My parents’ mistake, if that is how you want to see it, was teaching me how to think. The simple reality is that teaching women to think will be subversive in any system that demands male authority and female submission. My parents gave me the tools to form my own opinions and choose my own beliefs while at the same time demanding that I hold their opinions and beliefs, and once I left home and learned that the world was a much bigger place than I had been taught, I was crushed in the inconsistency of this.

There is a deeper problem as well. My parents saw me as an empty slate and believed that they could paint on it as they wished and choose what the outcome would be. They saw me as something to be shaped and moulded rather than as an individual with my own thoughts and feelings. For them, I was one more daughter to fit into the perfect mold. In some ways, it was like they were playing dollhouse with me, forming me just how they wanted and setting me up just how they liked - but I’m not a doll!
</div>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div><strong><em><span style="color: #008000;"><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/07/04/the-beautiful-girlhood-doll-part-10-i-am-a-person-not-a-doll/dollhouse/" rel="attachment wp-att-12181"><img class="size-full wp-image-12181 aligncenter" title="dollhouse" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/dollhouse.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="500" /></a>by Libby Anne</span></em></strong></div>
<div>
<p>It has now been some years since I left my parents’ house and shifted for myself. I think my parents were somewhat surprised that I was able to make it on my own and that I did not come home asking for help, or maybe it was just me who was surprised. I found inner sources of strength I had not known I had. At the same time, my college friends, both the original evangelical ones and new ones I had met, were a wonderful source of support, and always accepted me regardless of what I did or didn’t believe. I finished college on my own, and was extremely proud at graduation.</p>
<p>During this time I also found someone special, and I married him not long after finishing college. Because I was marrying someone who did not share their beliefs, my parents did not approve, but then I did not expect them to. My siblings were not allowed to be in my wedding, and I walked myself down the aisle with my head held high. My friends and in-laws made my wedding a time of great joy, but my heart still broke years later when one of my little brothers was exulting at being a ring bearer in one of my siblings’ weddings, and all I could think was, I did want you for my ring bearer, little brother, please don’t think I didn’t. But I couldn’t tell him that, I couldn’t explain what had happened. Remembering that moment still brings tears to my eyes, even now.</p>
<p>Early on, there was some question about whether my new husband and I would be allowed to visit my parents and siblings. After all, what kind of example were we setting? This question was resolved, though, when we chose to become pregnant and have a child. The presence of a grandchild has improved my relationship with my parents, though it has also created new problems as they do not always agree with the way I am raising my little one.</p>
<p>Another factor that has improved my relationship with my parents is their belief that my husband is my authority, and that they should therefore seek to change his views rather than mine. At the same time, though, my husband is a man and not their physical child, so there is a level of emotional distance and respect present that there is not with me. Thus my parents simultaneously leave my beliefs alone and at the same time work to respectfully persuade my husband that he should change his beliefs. Of course, this makes me want to laugh, because my husband and I have an egalitarian relationship, and we frequently disagree with each other without seeing it as a problem.</p>
<p>Regardless of the reasons for the softening of my relationship with my parents, I am grateful that I can still be a part of my siblings’ lives. However, my relationship with my parents will never be the same, and the pain of what happened will never go away.</p>
<p>My parents’ mistake, if that is how you want to see it, was teaching me how to think. The simple reality is that teaching women to think will be subversive in any system that demands male authority and female submission. My parents gave me the tools to form my own opinions and choose my own beliefs while at the same time demanding that I hold their opinions and beliefs, and once I left home and learned that the world was a much bigger place than I had been taught, I was crushed in the inconsistency of this.</p>
<p>There is a deeper problem as well. My parents saw me as an empty slate and believed that they could paint on it as they wished and choose what the outcome would be. They saw me as something to be shaped and moulded rather than as an individual with my own thoughts and feelings. For them, I was one more daughter to fit into the perfect mold. In some ways, it was like they were playing dollhouse with me, forming me just how they wanted and setting me up just how they liked &#8211; but I’m not a doll!</p>
<p>Christian Patriarchy forces girls into an impossible situation, where they are expected to act and believe just so and if they differ in any respect they are seen as broken and ruined. Nothing that I can do or achieve in life &#8211; not my stable and happy marriage, not my child, not school or work &#8211; will ever please my parents. The only thing that would please them is if I did exactly as they wanted, and believed exactly as they did. Is this a healthy model for a family to follow? Absolutely not! Children are people, not simply robots waiting to be programed, and parents need to recognize that.</p>
<p>Furthermore, fathers are fallible. How can a father say that his daughters should do just as he says when he himself is not perfect? And what of my parents’ parents? Neither set believes anything like my parents, and neither set approved of their decision to homeschool. How, then, can my parents claim that God says that I as their daughter am to do and believe as they do when they do not do or believe as their parents do? There is a major double standard here, but that is not what bothers me. What bothers me is the putting of man in the place of God and demanding daughters to obey. This is nothing short of blasphemy and abuse.</p>
<p>I chose long ago between my family and my intellectual freedom, and I would make that same choice again. I love my parents and my siblings, but I’m a person and I deserve to be able to have my own thoughts and feelings, my own life. And now I do. I have a wonderful husband, a sweet child, and a beautiful life. I also take pleasure in the fact that I now have excellent relationships with several adult siblings who are okay with my differences in belief. And of course, I take joy in the wonder and beauty of life unrestrained by the bonds of Christian Patriarchy.</p>
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<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=871"><em>Discuss this post on the NLQ forum!</em>  </a>   NOTE: Comments are also open below.</p>
<p><em>Libby Anne lives with her husband and toddler somewhere in the U.S. She has left patriarchy for feminism and has found freedom. She is a graduate student with big plans for her life. You can read her blog at <a href="http://lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/">Love</a></em><a href="http://lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/">, Joy, Feminism.</a></p>
<p><strong>The Beautiful Girlhood Doll by Libby Anne:</strong></p>
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<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/03/29/the-beautiful-girlhood-doll-introduction/">Intro.</a> | <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/04/07/the-beautiful-girlhood-doll-part-1-faith-fortitude/">Part 1</a> | <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/04/17/the-beautiful-girlhood-doll-part-2-purity-contentment/">Part 2</a> | <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/04/28/the-beautiful-girlhood-doll-part-3-femininity-grace/">Part 3</a> | <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/05/10/the-beautiful-girlhood-doll-part-4-enthusiasm-industry/">Part 4</a> | <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/05/18/the-beautiful-girlhood-doll-part-5-home-hospitality/">Part 5</a> | <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/06/15/the-beautiful-girlhood-doll-part-6-joy-friendship/">Part 6</a> | <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/06/27/the-beautiful-girlhood-doll-part-7-submission-obedience/">Part 7</a> | <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/06/30/the-beautiful-girlhood-doll-part-8-out-of-the-doll-house-into-the-real-world/">Part 8</a> | <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/07/02/the-beautiful-girlhood-doll-part-9-the-broken-doll/">Part 9</a> | <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/07/04/the-beautiful-girlhood-doll-part-10-i-am-a-person-not-a-doll/">Part 10</a></p>
<p><strong>Also by Libby Anne:</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/06/17/its-about-the-daughters/">It’s About the DAUGHTERS</a></p>
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<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>Crushing Daisies ~ Ways in Which Patriarchal Fundamentalism Harms Its Children ~ Part 2: The Little House on the Prairie Fashion Club</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/07/03/crushing-daisies-ways-in-which-patriarchal-fundamentalism-harms-its-children-part-2-the-little-house-on-the-prairie-fashion-club/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/07/03/crushing-daisies-ways-in-which-patriarchal-fundamentalism-harms-its-children-part-2-the-little-house-on-the-prairie-fashion-club/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jul 2011 13:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Beautiful Girlhood]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Biblical Manhood & Womanhood]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Child Training]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christian Modesty]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Crushing Daisies ~ Ways in Which Patriarchal Fundamentalism Harms Its Children]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gender Equality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Issues]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jonathan Lindvall]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Personal Autonomy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Purity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Quiverfull Discernment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Quiverfull Topics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Self-Abnegation / Martydom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sheltering Children]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spiritual Abuse & Recovery]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[above rubies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[child abuse]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[children are a blessing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[coercive religious groups]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Crushing Daisies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[dresses only]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fundamentalism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[homeschool]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[modest dress]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[patriarchy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[quiverfull]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[quiverfull daughters]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[spiritual abuse]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[woman's submission]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=12174</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<a rel="attachment wp-att-12175" href="http://nolongerquivering.com/?attachment_id=12175"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-12175" title="modest dress" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/modest-dress.jpg" alt="" width="256" height="256" /></a><strong><em>by <a href="http://allthewayout.wordpress.com/">Daisy</a></em></strong>

When we were Quiverfull, our family wasn’t nearly so extreme as some regarding dress standards, but we did insist on longish dresses and hair for the girls for several years.

This wasn’t all religious nonsense: those Osh Kosh pinnies were tough as hell and could be passed on through all the girls in the family and still look as though they’d hardly been worn. And, despite how my girls remember it, they were actually in fashion at the time. I wasn’t  just sewing our own stuff (although I did that too), Osh Kosh pinnies were bought off the rack in Myer and Target by regular folk as well as fundies like us. However, I’ll admit that we kept it up for longer than was appropriate. And we did choose clothing on the basis of a biblical notion of feminine modesty.

One day, some months after we’d come out, my then-17-year-old daughter K reminded me how damaged she had felt by this over-emphasis. She told me that in her view it had three significant effects – none of which I had intended to convey. For one, she grew to have an abiding disrespect for men and boys who apparently couldn’t keep their minds away from her private parts. K says she felt disgusted at male weakness and their apparent obsession with all things sexual. For years she struggled even to imagine enjoying a healthy partnership with a man.

In addition to helping us spot like-minded families in a crowd, dressing as we did had served, conveniently, to keep a distance between us and ‘the world’. K tells me that, even though she ended up going to school for grades 11 and 12, and is now happily managing university, for a long time she felt 16 years behind the eight ball when with her peers. Dress and other conservative choices we made kept my kids from engaging with their own culture. In an effort to follow the advice of patriarchal teachers such as <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/05/31/2009/04/13/we-didnt-want-to-be-balanced/">Jonathan Lindvall</a> we ‘dared to shelter’ our kids from many things that would help them function in a 21st world.

Finally, and perhaps most disturbing is that K says she grew up believing that there was something very wrong with her body. Having to hide herself away under a veritable mountain of denim, and promptly being admonished when any bits weren’t properly covered left her confused and, she says, appalled at her own foulness. She tells me that, before she even came to the dreadful realisation that God planned a very limited range of life choices for her, she knew she hated it that he had made her a girl. It’s impossible not to connect the dots and see this as a factor in K’s subsequent fight with Anorexia Nervosa.

How incredibly sad is that? I am heartbroken that I participated in crushing the self-worth of such a beautiful, intelligent and energetic young woman. And I feel very lucky indeed that she loves me still and allows me to walk beside her to build her up and help her realise her full potential.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/07/03/crushing-daisies-ways-in-which-patriarchal-fundamentalism-harms-its-children-part-2-the-little-house-on-the-prairie-fashion-club/modest-dress/" rel="attachment wp-att-12175"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-12175" title="modest dress" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/modest-dress.jpg" alt="" width="256" height="256" /></a><span style="color: #008000;"><strong><em>by Daisy</em></strong></span></p>
<p>When we were Quiverfull, our family wasn’t nearly so extreme as some regarding dress standards, but we did insist on longish dresses and hair for the girls for several years.</p>
<p>This wasn’t all religious nonsense: those Osh Kosh pinnies were tough as hell and could be passed on through all the girls in the family and still look as though they’d hardly been worn. And, despite how my girls remember it, they were actually in fashion at the time. I wasn’t  just sewing our own stuff (although I did that too), Osh Kosh pinnies were bought off the rack in Myer and Target by regular folk as well as fundies like us. However, I’ll admit that we kept it up for longer than was appropriate. And we did choose clothing on the basis of a biblical notion of feminine modesty.</p>
<p>One day, some months after we’d come out, my then-17-year-old daughter K reminded me how damaged she had felt by this over-emphasis. She told me that in her view it had three significant effects – none of which I had intended to convey. For one, she grew to have an abiding disrespect for men and boys who apparently couldn’t keep their minds away from her private parts. K says she felt disgusted at male weakness and their apparent obsession with all things sexual. For years she struggled even to imagine enjoying a healthy partnership with a man.</p>
<p>In addition to helping us spot like-minded families in a crowd, dressing as we did had served, conveniently, to keep a distance between us and ‘the world’. K tells me that, even though she ended up going to school for grades 11 and 12, and is now happily managing university, for a long time she felt 16 years behind the eight ball when with her peers. Dress and other conservative choices we made kept my kids from engaging with their own culture. In an effort to follow the advice of patriarchal teachers such as <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/05/31/2009/04/13/we-didnt-want-to-be-balanced/">Jonathan Lindvall</a> we ‘dared to shelter’ our kids from many things that would help them function in a 21st world.</p>
<p>Finally, and perhaps most disturbing is that K says she grew up believing that there was something very wrong with her body. Having to hide herself away under a veritable mountain of denim, and promptly being admonished when any bits weren’t properly covered left her confused and, she says, appalled at her own foulness. She tells me that, before she even came to the dreadful realisation that God planned a very limited range of life choices for her, she knew she hated it that he had made her a girl. It’s impossible not to connect the dots and see this as a factor in K’s subsequent fight with Anorexia Nervosa.</p>
<p>How incredibly sad is that? I am heartbroken that I participated in crushing the self-worth of such a beautiful, intelligent and energetic young woman. And I feel very lucky indeed that she loves me still and allows me to walk beside her to build her up and help her realise her full potential.</p>
<p>It has been many years since I stopped enforcing the dress code in our home  – long before we even came out of Christianity. Really, as soon as our girls reached their teen years the foolishness of such a position became clear to me. The fact that my two oldest girls came to me threatening mutiny helped a lot.  I dropped over-the-top modesty like a hot potato when I realised it was hurting my girls – and probably my boys – and damaging my relationship with them. Thankfully my desire to keep the love and respect of my children overruled my foolish legalism.</p>
<p>I can imagine a flood of  ‘if anyone loves father, mother….more than me’ tut-tutting from some former churchmates as I write. I realise that many will believe my opting to side with my kids will send me to hell, but I have chosen to love them regardless. I’m so glad I realised I loved my children too much to stand on silly, man-made principle – no matter what the punishment for rebellion. Whatever happens and whoever my kids decide to be, the only mother they’ve got in the world is going to stand beside them cheering them on. No matter what it costs me.</p>
<p>Addendum:</p>
<p>When I told K about this post, this is what she said:</p>
<p>“Now I love being a woman. I feel powerful, strong and capable of doing anything I want to do.”</p>
<p>A little joybird just nested in my heart.</p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=864">Discuss this post on the NLQ forum</a>. Comments are also open below.</em></p>
<p>Jane Douglas (&#8220;Daisy&#8221;) was at one time a pastor’s wife, homeschool mum and advocate of QF patriarchal Christianity. She is now none of these things and is instead discovering the joys and challenges of living, loving and learning in a whole new way with her children in their home in Australia. In her spare time Jane works on her university studies and blogs at <a href="http://allthewayout.wordpress.com/">All the Way Out</a>.</p>
<h3><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/daisy/">Read all posts by Daisy!</a></h3>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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