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	<title>NO LONGER QIVERING &#187; home church</title>
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		<title>Millipede: Part Two</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/05/16/millipede-part-two/</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 14:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=17163</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<span style="color: #008000;"><strong><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/?attachment_id=17164" rel="attachment wp-att-17164"><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-17164" title="crossflag" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/crossflag-300x239.png" alt="" width="300" height="239" /></a>by Millipede</em></strong></span>

Eventually, the church building materialized. At first, we had a larger group. Soon however, there was a falling out with a group which had comprised most of those from the Patriot group. Part of it was personality and some of it was viewpoint. Some wanted to the place to be a patriot type meeting house while some wanted it to be a church. This belied a rift that plays itself over again and again in this end of the spectrum.

On one hand there are what I would call the "political types". This is simply for lack of a better term and is not indicative of a lack of Faith. People within this group were most often led into church via ideological means. Their religious views are part of a larger concert of views. I heard a pastor bemoan such people, saying that they simply added Christ onto a long chain of train cars of belief. One car might be their position on gun control, another states' rights and so on. With the "religious question" answered they move on to continue to build the train. He stated that they needed to make Christ the locomotive, not merely regulate Him along a set of beliefs.

On the other hand you have those for whom Faith is the primary motivation. They often come from a strong Fundamentalist background. Not from in a distant childhood past either, but often having recently come from various conservative churches. for these folks, ideological issues are important, but they are subordinate to questions of faith.<p style="text-align: right;"><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=17163">Full Post</a></strong></p>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span style="color: #008000;"><strong><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/05/16/millipede-part-two/crossflag/" rel="attachment wp-att-17164"><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-17164" title="crossflag" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/crossflag-300x239.png" alt="" width="300" height="239" /></a>by Millipede</em></strong></span></p>
<p>Eventually, the church building materialized. At first, we had a larger group. Soon however, there was a falling out with a group which had comprised most of those from the Patriot group. Part of it was personality and some of it was viewpoint. Some wanted to the place to be a patriot type meeting house while some wanted it to be a church. This belied a rift that plays itself over again and again in this end of the spectrum.</p>
<p>On one hand there are what I would call the &#8220;political types&#8221;. This is simply for lack of a better term and is not indicative of a lack of Faith. People within this group were most often led into church via ideological means. Their religious views are part of a larger concert of views. I heard a pastor bemoan such people, saying that they simply added Christ onto a long chain of train cars of belief. One car might be their position on gun control, another states&#8217; rights and so on. With the &#8220;religious question&#8221; answered they move on to continue to build the train. He stated that they needed to make Christ the locomotive, not merely regulate Him along a set of beliefs.</p>
<p>On the other hand you have those for whom Faith is the primary motivation. They often come from a strong Fundamentalist background. Not from in a distant childhood past either, but often having recently come from various conservative churches. for these folks, ideological issues are important, but they are subordinate to questions of faith.</p>
<p>At first both groups over lap in various organizations, but over time, they unwind. As one pastor said, there were the &#8220;beans and bullets&#8221; types and the &#8220;folks who wanted to have church&#8221;. Those outside the political spectrum might not notice. At face value, these two groups look identical. In fact they often proclaim identical or closely related viewpoints.</p>
<p>NOTE. This is a socio-cultural observation only, not a measure of sincerity or depth of belief. Both groups view themselves as being both committed Christians and as being sincerely dedicated to various ideological causes.<br />
My husband and I along with our new circle of friends belonged to the &#8220;church goers&#8221;. In our view, a lot of patriot types liked the high ground that being a Christian presented, but were not really committed to the Faith. for a lot of them having church was really having a group of people sitting around discussing political issues. They had a &#8220;to each his own&#8221; when it came to theological views. We, on the other hand, were committed to pleasing God, in spirit and deed. If the Bible forbid something, we would abstain from it and would not hesitate to proclaim that truth even if it offended would be allies.</p>
<p>Soon, the church had a split with the more &#8220;political&#8221; group going off on its own to hold its own version of church. I saw people I considered my friends leave with that group. Even after the split, we remained on friendly terms, but we were not close. Our new circle, however was tight, both a result of personality and of viewpoint.<br />
We enjoyed fellowship not only in church, but as friends. In the first couple of years, I enjoyed our time together. They were friendly people and we spent a lot of time together.</p>
<p>Our faith was a growing thing and with each new turn, we molded our lives around each new truth. My life had changed quite a bit. we went to church regularly and attended various conferences, often traveling hundreds of miles.<br />
I made a great deal of personal changes. I had been dissatisfied with my job in the past and things came to a head when when we were getting heavily involved in our faith. when I told my husband that I was going to look for another job, he suggested that I stay home and we could start a family. When I replied that I was worried about our financial stability, he said that we should step out in faith. So instead of changing jobs, I simply put my two weeks notice in with plans to stay home. Not long after that a fortuitous event occurred that met our financial concerns, a sure sign of a blessing.</p>
<p>So I stayed at home and we tried, without success, to have children. This didn&#8217;t concern us. although we didn&#8217;t believe in birth control and were for having large and often home schooled families, no one was legalistic about it. It was between a husband and his wife about the number of children they should have. Also, if a woman abstained from having more children due to health concerns, no one looked down upon her. In this respect, I feel that our group was very balanced, there was no pressure or condemnation concerning the bearing of children. Even though I now take issue with other stances, I feel that we as a group had a healthy take on the issue. There was none of this &#8220;having children at any cost&#8221; or &#8220;maternal martyr&#8221; mindset. Indeed it was not beyond the pale, if the medical issue was grave enough, for a woman to have her tubes tied.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there were views that we adapted which proved harmful in the long run. They started with little baby steps at first which made it easier to swallow. Little things&#8230;</p>
<p>To be continued&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=2114"><em>Discuss this post on the NLQ forum</em>.</a> Comments are also open below.</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/04/19/millipede-part-one/"><span style="color: #000080;"><strong><em>Part 1</em></strong></span></a></p>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>Millipede: Part One</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/04/19/millipede-part-one/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/04/19/millipede-part-one/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2012 20:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=16755</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/?attachment_id=16756" rel="attachment wp-att-16756"><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-16756" title="millipede" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/millipede-300x168.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="168" /></a><span style="color: #008000;"><strong><em>by Millipede</em></strong></span>

<em>(Editor's Note: Millipede has been recounting her history of how she came to join a patriarchal lifestyle on our forum starting about six months ago. She's graciously agreed to allow her writing to be reposted here. We thank her for that!)</em>

To tell it in a nutshell; my husband and I became part of a reactionary milieu, joining a "movement" which addressed various issues such as gun rights, survival ism and so on. I still hold my beliefs pertaining to these issues and so this is not an indictment of "right wing extremism". In fact those early years were wonderful and I would gladly join such a group.

I was not new to such views. Years before I even met my husband, I had been active in various causes. In the intervening years I had become inactive and so when my when my husband and I started exploring various issues I felt joy at becoming politically active again.

I am giving background, not getting up on a soap box.

Anyway, the road to patriarchy was at first slow. Even in right wing "extremist" circles there is quite a diversity of beliefs concerning patriarchy. Also, there are some who may on the surface appear to endorse patriarchal belief systems, but are actually pretty mild if not "enlightened" in their views and treatment of women. There are even some who could be called feminists. Again certain causes attract all sorts of people. It was sort of our version of the "popular front" so to speak.
<p style="text-align: right;"><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/04/19/millipede-part-one/">Full Post</a></strong></p>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/04/19/millipede-part-one/millipede/" rel="attachment wp-att-16756"><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-16756" title="millipede" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/millipede-300x168.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="168" /></a><span style="color: #008000;"><strong><em>by Millipede</em></strong></span></p>
<p><em>(Editor&#8217;s Note: Millipede has been recounting her history of how she came to join a patriarchal lifestyle on our forum starting about six months ago. She&#8217;s graciously agreed to allow her writing to be reposted here. We thank her for that!)</em></p>
<p>To tell it in a nutshell; my husband and I became part of a reactionary milieu, joining a &#8220;movement&#8221; which addressed various issues such as gun rights, survival ism and so on. I still hold my beliefs pertaining to these issues and so this is not an indictment of &#8220;right wing extremism&#8221;. In fact those early years were wonderful and I would gladly join such a group.</p>
<p>I was not new to such views. Years before I even met my husband, I had been active in various causes. In the intervening years I had become inactive and so when my when my husband and I started exploring various issues I felt joy at becoming politically active again.</p>
<p>I am giving background, not getting up on a soap box.</p>
<p>Anyway, the road to patriarchy was at first slow. Even in right wing &#8220;extremist&#8221; circles there is quite a diversity of beliefs concerning patriarchy. Also, there are some who may on the surface appear to endorse patriarchal belief systems, but are actually pretty mild if not &#8220;enlightened&#8221; in their views and treatment of women. There are even some who could be called feminists. Again certain causes attract all sorts of people. It was sort of our version of the &#8220;popular front&#8221; so to speak.</p>
<p>In years past I had rubbed shoulders with the ultra patriarchal crowd from time to time. However I was always turned off by their views and always kept them at arms length, preferring instead to associate with those who were not so hung up about women. There were plenty of channels to travel that did not lead to the patriarchal camp.<br />
Becoming active again several things were different. Ironically, this was a milder crowd, not near as &#8220;out there&#8221; on certain views. More importantly, I was no longer single, but was involved as the wife of a spouse who was in the course of searching out his views. This should have been something great, but little did I know.</p>
<p>My husband and I became involved in what one might call a patriot group. During that time I met a lot of wonderful people, many of whom I still call friends this day. It was an exciting time, I was so happy that my husband who at first was reluctant to become active was involved alongside me.</p>
<p>During the next few years we saw factions split off, people go different ways, new people join. Such was the life in such a group. In the later years, not long before the group dissolved, we started a close friendship with a particular member. This gentleman came from a conservative Christian background. Intelligent and kind he was not only exploring political issues, but was on a theological journey. At the time my husband was not religious. In fact, he had not been in church since he as a teenager, having rebelled against a conservative religious upbringing.<br />
In the group my husband heard much about restoring America as a Christian nation even if it was in a loose and undefined sense. To most Patriots, it was more about the acknowledgment of America being a Christian nation coupled with the idea that Christians should be allowed to worship and serve God without government interference. It often went no further than that.</p>
<p>As the friendship grew we became friends with a circle of Christians that we met through this man. Most had not been involved with the Patriot movement, but were friends of his who were dissatisfied with the churches of their childhood and were searching for answers. They were decent and kind people and we &#8220;clicked&#8221; as a group. My husband&#8217;s interest in the Bible was rekindled and he rediscovered his Faith. I was overjoyed at first. What better a way them for husband and wife to make a journey side by side.</p>
<p>The Patriot group imploded in time, while most members formed small groups, we slowly drifted away, seeing less of them. A few did hang on the periphery of this circle, also interested in studying the Bible. By that time we had started to regard most Patriot types as somewhat hypocritical; always talking about American being a Christian nation and yet not bothering to go to church or really trying to live by God&#8217;s Laws. We thought this more and more as we studied the Bible, discussed various passages and their meanings. We weren&#8217;t just mouthing empty platitudes, but were actually trying to live by the Word.</p>
<p>At first our group was a &#8220;home church&#8221;, meeting at various members&#8217; houses. Our friend dreamed of having a real church building where we could worship together. In time the opportunity for this to happen materialized.<br />
As I stated before These were exciting times, while the Patriot group had been a great start, it was only that-a start. Now, we were concerned with more important things.</p>
<p>It was at this time that other things were becoming apparent, at the time they were only minor disturbances. However, in hindsight, they were a great importance.</p>
<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1999"><em>Discuss this post on the NLQ forum</em>.</a> Comments are also open below.</p>
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<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
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<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>The Formula Problem: Why Duggarizing Your Marriage is Not Recommended</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/02/29/the-formula-problem-why-duggarizing-your-marriage-is-not-recommended/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/02/29/the-formula-problem-why-duggarizing-your-marriage-is-not-recommended/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Feb 2012 19:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[7 Basic Needs of a Husband / 7 Basic Needs of a Wife]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=16347</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<span style="color: #008000;"><strong><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/?attachment_id=16349" rel="attachment wp-att-16349"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-16349" title="images (2)" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/images-22.jpeg" alt="" width="225" height="225" /></a>by Incongruous Circumspection</em></strong></span>

Baking is one of my favorite pastimes.  I make a <a href="http://incongruouscircumspection.blogspot.com/2011/06/crispy-banana-bread.html" target="_blank">killer banana bread.</a>  I love baking cookies and many times, like Marie Barone, bake a cake just because.  I follow recipes very closely but always add vanilla even if it is not called for.  I can follow those recipes to the letter for one simple reason - I live 900 feet above sea level.

Those who live 2500 feet above sea level cannot enjoy the ease of baking I take for granted.  When a recipe calls for a certain amount of flour, they have to add a bit more of the liquid ingredients.  If baking powder is needed, the elevated baker must reduce the amount by as much as half.  Baking temperatures must be increased.  And it isn't as easy as following specific directions for a perfect cake either.  In order to find the perfect balance of everything, copious testing and many failures must ensue.  But, just as the elevated baker is finding the correct balance, a thunderstorm hits and their angel food cake comes out of the oven in the shape of a discus.

Such is life in the baking world and such is the idea behind marriage.  What works for one couple will not necessarily work for another couple.

Everyone in the world is familiar with JimBob and Michelle Duggar.  They are all over television with their TLC program, as well as having been on numerous talk shows and the subject of many a news story.  They tow the line of an organization called Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) and their home schooling program Advanced Training Institute (ATI).

IBLP/ATI is run by a chronically unmarried man named Bill Gothard with a storied past, full of scandals.  This gentleman has propped himself up as an expert on marriage and everything to do with family life.  He is quite the guru with millions of direct and indirect adherents to his ideas.  Yes...ideas.  Bill Gothard has seven steps to this, fourteen steps to that, twelve steps to everything except alcoholism, three steps to whatever else.  The material he puts out is so formulaic, a follower of his has nothing to do but reference any of his hundreds of manuals for any question in life.

As was put forth in ATI material that Michelle Duggar handed out to women at a conference she was speaking at, the formula for marriage is very simple.  The wife must worship her husband at every turn in life.  She must stand behind him in all his decisions and respect his leadership.  She must look at him lovingly whenever he speaks and not interrupt.  She cannot argue with him or disagree unless she follows a formula to make a "godly" appeal.  All financial decisions are his.  All final decisions are his.  Her husbands vision must be her vision and absolute unquestioning trust and faith must be placed in the man she married.

This seems to work well for JimBob and Michelle Duggar.  JimBob appears to be an ambitious man and has started numerous businesses.  Currently, he is successful at real estate, not to mention the large amounts of money involved in any television show.  Trusting a man to make good decisions is very easy when that man works hard, efficiently, smart, and enough to more than enough money is rolling in.

The problem is that two people living together is never a cookie-cutter situation.  JimBob and Michelle Duggar, as well as all adherents of IBLP/ATI practices, have a favorite line that you will hear whenever they give public interviews or are backed into a corner, defending their ancient and outdated belief system.

"This is simply our conviction."

No it isn't.  If you dig into the reality of IBLP/ATI/Duggar, you will see what they portray as their conviction is really much more.  They posit that, <em>due to their convictions, </em>they have been blessed by God.  The obvious conclusion is that if others do not have the same convictions, then God is obligated <em>not </em>to bless them.  Thus, the "simply our conviction" line is really a translucent lie.

<p style="text-align: right;"><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/02/29/the-formula-problem-why-duggarizing-your-marriage-is-not-recommended/"><strong>Full post ...</strong></a></p>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span style="color: #008000;"><strong><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/02/29/the-formula-problem-why-duggarizing-your-marriage-is-not-recommended/images-2-3/" rel="attachment wp-att-16349"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-16349" title="images (2)" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/images-22.jpeg" alt="" width="225" height="225" /></a>by Incongruous Circumspection</em></strong></span></p>
<p>Baking is one of my favorite pastimes.  I make a <a href="http://incongruouscircumspection.blogspot.com/2011/06/crispy-banana-bread.html" target="_blank">killer banana bread.</a>  I love baking cookies and many times, like Marie Barone, bake a cake just because.  I follow recipes very closely but always add vanilla even if it is not called for.  I can follow those recipes to the letter for one simple reason &#8211; I live 900 feet above sea level.</p>
<p>Those who live 2500 feet above sea level cannot enjoy the ease of baking I take for granted.  When a recipe calls for a certain amount of flour, they have to add a bit more of the liquid ingredients.  If baking powder is needed, the elevated baker must reduce the amount by as much as half.  Baking temperatures must be increased.  And it isn&#8217;t as easy as following specific directions for a perfect cake either.  In order to find the perfect balance of everything, copious testing and many failures must ensue.  But, just as the elevated baker is finding the correct balance, a thunderstorm hits and their angel food cake comes out of the oven in the shape of a discus.</p>
<p>Such is life in the baking world and such is the idea behind marriage.  What works for one couple will not necessarily work for another couple.</p>
<p>Everyone in the world is familiar with JimBob and Michelle Duggar.  They are all over television with their TLC program, as well as having been on numerous talk shows and the subject of many a news story.  They tow the line of an organization called Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) and their home schooling program Advanced Training Institute (ATI).</p>
<p>IBLP/ATI is run by a chronically unmarried man named Bill Gothard with a storied past, full of scandals.  This gentleman has propped himself up as an expert on marriage and everything to do with family life.  He is quite the guru with millions of direct and indirect adherents to his ideas.  Yes&#8230;ideas.  Bill Gothard has seven steps to this, fourteen steps to that, twelve steps to everything except alcoholism, three steps to whatever else.  The material he puts out is so formulaic, a follower of his has nothing to do but reference any of his hundreds of manuals for any question in life.</p>
<p>As was put forth in ATI material that Michelle Duggar handed out to women at a conference she was speaking at, the formula for marriage is very simple.  The wife must worship her husband at every turn in life.  She must stand behind him in all his decisions and respect his leadership.  She must look at him lovingly whenever he speaks and not interrupt.  She cannot argue with him or disagree unless she follows a formula to make a &#8220;godly&#8221; appeal.  All financial decisions are his.  All final decisions are his.  Her husbands vision must be her vision and absolute unquestioning trust and faith must be placed in the man she married.</p>
<p>This seems to work well for JimBob and Michelle Duggar.  JimBob appears to be an ambitious man and has started numerous businesses.  Currently, he is successful at real estate, not to mention the large amounts of money involved in any television show.  Trusting a man to make good decisions is very easy when that man works hard, efficiently, smart, and enough to more than enough money is rolling in.</p>
<p>The problem is that two people living together is never a cookie-cutter situation.  JimBob and Michelle Duggar, as well as all adherents of IBLP/ATI practices, have a favorite line that you will hear whenever they give public interviews or are backed into a corner, defending their ancient and outdated belief system.</p>
<p>&#8220;This is simply our conviction.&#8221;</p>
<p>No it isn&#8217;t.  If you dig into the reality of IBLP/ATI/Duggar, you will see what they portray as their conviction is really much more.  They posit that, <em>due to their convictions, </em>they have been blessed by God.  The obvious conclusion is that if others do not have the same convictions, then God is obligated <em>not </em>to bless them.  Thus, the &#8220;simply our conviction&#8221; line is really a translucent lie.</p>
<p>In 2011, I played on a church softball team.  This league was unique in that most of the families showed up to watch their husbands and fathers make fools out of themselves.  (Ok, it was really just me making a fool out of myself).  A highlight of the game was the after-party where the home team would bring snacks and drinks and the families enjoyed meeting everyone.  My wife and I met a mother of eight children.  These children were very poorly dressed and had obvious, easily treatable medical problems (rashes, etc.).  We asked the mother how many children she had and she hesitated before she &#8220;remembered&#8221; that she had eight.  The children were well behaved but the older girls, around eleven and twelve, were very exasperated while taking care of their younger siblings.  The father was nowhere to be found.</p>
<p>I record this scenario here to portray a different side of formulaic marriage and family life as put forth by IBLP/ATI/Duggars.  The church league I played in was heavily involved in this mindset and they lived it, even to their detriment.  My wife and I went home and began asking the following questions.</p>
<p>Why is it right to have as many children as God gives you if you cannot support them?</p>
<p>What if the husband doesn&#8217;t listen to &#8220;godly&#8221; appeals and railroads through all his decisions, no matter the detriment to the family?</p>
<p>What if the husband is abusive?</p>
<p>What if the wife has a superior financial mind and makes better decisions in that area?</p>
<p>What if the husband has no marketable skills?</p>
<p>What about inflation where one income is not enough?</p>
<p>What if the wife is not educated enough to sufficiently school the children and money is too scarce to get assistance?</p>
<p>All of these questions, and many more can be easily answered when you watch JimBob and Michelle Duggar.  They don&#8217;t have to worry about them because everything appears to work for this family.  But this rosy, happy Hollywood story, is far from reality.</p>
<p>Not everyone has a husband who works hard and &#8220;gets lucky&#8221;.  Many marriages work better when all parties handle everything equally.  Many marriages work very well when the partners have extended arguments and constructive fights.  Disagreement is good in life. Many families struggle to make a living and need all parties to be gainfully employed.  Sometimes the spouse needs to sleep on the couch overnight to reboot the romance.  I cannot even begin to list all the real life differences from the perfect life formula that the Duggars portray as absolute and necessary.  There are hundreds &#8211; and they grow exponentially with every passing hour of life.</p>
<p>Happiness in marriage is what the two married parties make of it.  It will look different for every marriage.  Don&#8217;t let anyone tell you that your marriage would be better (or even worse, truly blessed by God) if you only followed their principled life.  It just isn&#8217;t true.</p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1551">Discuss this post on the NLQ forum</a></em>. Comments are also open below.</p>
<p>I am a 30 something husband of one and father of 6 dynamic and loud children. My wife and I are still madly in love – at least in my view. My world is exciting, tense, and full of life. I love to write and hope to one day, do it full time. – <a href="http://incongruouscircumspection.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">Incongruous Circumspection</a></p>
<h3><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/stories/incongruous-circumspection/">Read all posts by Incongruous Circumspection!</a></h3>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

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<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>The 14 Basic Needs of Jim-Bob and Michelle Duggar</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/02/29/the-14-basic-needs-of-jim-bob-and-michelle-duggar/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/02/29/the-14-basic-needs-of-jim-bob-and-michelle-duggar/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Feb 2012 14:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[7 Basic Needs of a Husband / 7 Basic Needs of a Wife]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Drinking the Koolaid]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Elitism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Father Worship]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Formulaic Religion]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=16292</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&#160;
<p style="text-align: center;"><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/?attachment_id=16293" rel="attachment wp-att-16293"><img class="wp-image-16293 aligncenter" title="Michelle Duggar" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Michelle-Duggar.jpg" alt="" width="562" height="464" /></a></strong></p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><strong><span style="color: #008000;"><em>by Hopewell</em></span></strong></p>
Recently  on “<em>19 Kids and Counting,”</em> Michelle Duggar was seen giving women a handout on the “7 Basic Needs of a Husband,” <a href="http://ati.iblp.org/ati/supportlink/kb/questions/100/" target="_blank">a document produced and distributed by the Advanced Training Institute</a> –the Duggar’s “homeschool group.” She also gave out the group's “Character Qualities” chart, which I discussed in an earlier post<strong>, </strong><strong><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/09/10/49-character-qualities-of-the-duggars-a-report-card/">The 49 Character Qualities of the Duggars</a></em></strong><strong>.</strong>

<strong>The 14 Basic Needs of Jim-Bob and Michelle Duggar: How they meet each other’s 7 Basic Needs:</strong>

<strong>7 Basic Needs of a Husband:</strong>
<ul>
	<li><strong><em></em></strong><strong><em>A man needs a wife who is loyal and supportive</em></strong>: Obviously, Jim-Bob picked the right wife! Michelle has been there with him, supportive to the max, thru years of small businesses, scrimping and buying used and saving the difference to achieve his (well, their) dream for their family. She’s put up with a two bedroom house on a car lot keeping 4 or 5 small children quiet while Daddy made a car sale. She’s sold cars herself with babies underfoot, gone out to tow cars on her own and kept all the family fed, clothed and healthy throughout it all. That was the early years.</li>
</ul>
Today Michelle is beside Jim-Bob at every possible moment—even on the Santorum Campaign trail when possible. While she has Grandma Duggar and the big girls to take up much of the day-to-day running of the family, caring for Jim-Bob is her responsibility and she obviously takes it seriously. Her rapt attention when he is speaking shows her love for him.
<ul>
	<li><strong><em></em></strong><strong><em>A man needs a wife who honors his leadership</em></strong>: Michelle honors her husband by taking any opportunity to praise him as a father, speaking lovingly of love of family fun, of making a careful response to problems and of modeling the behavior he wants to see in his children. She openly admires his vision for the family and his business acumen. When he is speaking she is completely focused on him.</li>
</ul>
<ul>
	<li><strong></strong><strong>A man needs a wife who develops inward and outward beauty</strong> Michelle has kept herself in very good shape considering all the years of pregnancy she’s endured. She honors her husband’s preference for long hair at an age when most wives have long since cut theirs for convenience. She maintains her composure in difficult situations and tries always to speak in a loving voice. She laughs easily and her smile at that time is lovely. She is a very outgoing lady.</li>
</ul>
<ul>
	<li><strong><em></em></strong><strong><em>A man needs a wife who will make appeals, not demands</em></strong>.  While we cannot know what goes on when the cameras are off, it does not appear that Michelle is a very demanding of her husband.  She does not complain about him dragging home an antique harp or buying a new bus—she’s used to his whims and trusts his business sense. She knows him well and lives easily and happily with him.</li>
</ul><p style="text-align: right;"><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/02/29/the-14-basic-needs-of-jim-bob-and-michelle-duggar/"><strong>Read More</strong></a></p>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/02/29/the-14-basic-needs-of-jim-bob-and-michelle-duggar/michelle-duggar-2/" rel="attachment wp-att-16293"><img class="wp-image-16293 aligncenter" title="Michelle Duggar" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Michelle-Duggar.jpg" alt="" width="562" height="464" /></a></strong></p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><strong><span style="color: #008000;"><em>by Hopewell</em></span></strong></p>
<p>Recently  on “<em>19 Kids and Counting,”</em> Michelle Duggar was seen giving women a handout on the “7 Basic Needs of a Husband,” <a href="http://ati.iblp.org/ati/supportlink/kb/questions/100/" target="_blank">a document produced and distributed by the Advanced Training Institute</a> –the Duggar’s “homeschool group.” She also gave out the group&#8217;s “Character Qualities” chart, which I discussed in an earlier post<strong>, </strong><strong><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/09/10/49-character-qualities-of-the-duggars-a-report-card/">The 49 Character Qualities of the Duggars</a></em></strong><strong>.</strong></p>
<p><strong>The 14 Basic Needs of Jim-Bob and Michelle Duggar: How they meet each other’s 7 Basic Needs:</strong></p>
<p><strong>7 Basic Needs of a Husband:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong><em></em></strong><strong><em>A man needs a wife who is loyal and supportive</em></strong>: Obviously, Jim-Bob picked the right wife! Michelle has been there with him, supportive to the max, thru years of small businesses, scrimping and buying used and saving the difference to achieve his (well, their) dream for their family. She’s put up with a two bedroom house on a car lot keeping 4 or 5 small children quiet while Daddy made a car sale. She’s sold cars herself with babies underfoot, gone out to tow cars on her own and kept all the family fed, clothed and healthy throughout it all. That was the early years.</li>
</ul>
<p>Today Michelle is beside Jim-Bob at every possible moment—even on the Santorum Campaign trail when possible. While she has Grandma Duggar and the big girls to take up much of the day-to-day running of the family, caring for Jim-Bob is her responsibility and she obviously takes it seriously. Her rapt attention when he is speaking shows her love for him.</p>
<ul>
<li><strong><em></em></strong><strong><em>A man needs a wife who honors his leadership</em></strong>: Michelle honors her husband by taking any opportunity to praise him as a father, speaking lovingly of love of family fun, of making a careful response to problems and of modeling the behavior he wants to see in his children. She openly admires his vision for the family and his business acumen. When he is speaking she is completely focused on him.</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li><strong></strong><strong>A man needs a wife who develops inward and outward beauty</strong> Michelle has kept herself in very good shape considering all the years of pregnancy she’s endured. She honors her husband’s preference for long hair at an age when most wives have long since cut theirs for convenience. She maintains her composure in difficult situations and tries always to speak in a loving voice. She laughs easily and her smile at that time is lovely. She is a very outgoing lady.</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li><strong><em></em></strong><strong><em>A man needs a wife who will make appeals, not demands</em></strong>.  While we cannot know what goes on when the cameras are off, it does not appear that Michelle is a very demanding of her husband.  She does not complain about him dragging home an antique harp or buying a new bus—she’s used to his whims and trusts his business sense. She knows him well and lives easily and happily with him.</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li><strong><em></em></strong><strong><em>A man needs a wife who understands his need for time alone with God</em></strong>. While we have not been shown Jim-Bob’s “quiet time” on the show, I’m sure when it happens Michelle actively protects his privacy. She is very supportive of family Bible Time and this support has paid off—we have seen Josh Duggar having devotions with his own family and have heard John David say he had his “Bible and his music” and that was all he needed!</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li><strong><em></em></strong><strong><em>A man needs a grateful wife</em></strong>. Michelle openly and sincerely expresses her gratitude to her husband. She obviously enjoys being married to him.</li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li><strong></strong><strong>A man needs a wife who will be praised by others</strong>. Michelle has been recognized by like-minded  people as a model wife and mother. That’s pretty high praise!</li>
</ul>
<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/02/29/the-14-basic-needs-of-jim-bob-and-michelle-duggar/md/" rel="attachment wp-att-16294"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-16294" title="md" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/md.jpg" alt="" width="261" height="200" /></a></p>
<p><strong>7 Basic Needs of a Wife</strong>:</p>
<p><strong><em>A wife needs a husband who demonstrates spiritual leadership</em></strong>. In their times of crisis, such as Josie’s birth, Jim-Bob’s taking time to pray with Michelle was an obvious comfort to her and helped her to become calmer.</p>
<p><strong><em>A wife needs to know she is meeting her husband’s vital needs</em></strong>. Well, she only has to look around to see how she’s meeting the most intimate of his needs! Joking aside, she clearly seems to know, as most wives do, those things that set Daddy off and tries to minimize them.</p>
<p><strong><em>A wife needs a husband who cherishes her</em></strong>: Jim-Bob beams with affection for his wife. Few wives have had a husband bungee jump yelling “I love you!” Michelle has to be one of the most publically adored wives in history. When the Duggars had their wedding vow renewal ceremony, Jim-Bob showed his love for his wife by wanting her dressed in a modest, but beautiful dress and expressed a preference for the styles of their youth—a very touching moment.   Jim-Bob is very physically affectionate to Michelle—much more so than to their children.</p>
<p><strong><em>A wife needs a husband who protects her</em></strong>. Jim-Bob proved in the very early years of their marriage that Michelle’s life was more precious to him than his own. When a break-in occurred at their car-lot home he begged the armed intruder to not harm his sleeping, pregnant wife. The man agreed. This was part of the reason Jim-Bob visited in the man in prison and forgave him. Jim-Bob consistently shows his concern for Michelle by praying in times of crisis.</p>
<p><strong><em>A wife needs to have intimate communication with her husband</em></strong>. Jim-Bob tells his wife he loves her over and over again. It’s a hallmark of the show. The Duggars model active listening with each other. When one is talking the other is giving full attention to listening, to watching the facial and body language and to modeling  respect by not interrupting except in fun. We’ve seen occasional times of slight irritation on Michelle’s part though—such as when preparing to go on stage in Big Sandy, Texas, she asked rather sharply what they were speaking about so they would be on the same page. Still, her tone may have been prompted by something we didn’t see or by her husband’s anxiety about speaking to a crowd. She may also have felt she dropped the ball on this occasion by not making time to prepare for the talk.  When listening to Michelle, Jim-Bob often appears impatient or even a little angry, but this may just be his “listening” face.</p>
<p><strong><em>A wife needs a husband who honors her</em></strong>: Recently, Jim-Bob took a day to manage the household to remind himself of how much his wife and daughters do for the family. He acknowledged how hard they all work and that he does not cope with it all as well as they do.  While Jim-Bob honors Michelle with his words of affirmation and by giving examples of what he likes about her, he has also said negative things such as publically discussing his wife having a dating “past” that to most people would be nebulous. While his words may have been badly edited by those in charge of the show, they seemed disloyal, mean-spirited and bitter—in no way a model of God’s grace and forgiveness.</p>
<p><strong><em>A wife needs a husband who invests in her life</em></strong>. Jim-Bob invested in Michelle in the early years by working in partnership with her to build their businesses. Later on he invested in her as wife and mother by building the house she needed to comfortably raise and organize their children. Recently he has invested in her by encouraging her to speak to wives and mothers and by providing exercise equipment and joining Weight Watchers with her to improve her health. He takes her out for date nights and they occasionally get away together as a couple which is good for any marriage. Jim-Bob encourages Michelle’s friendships with other women, too. All of this is well and good, but limiting family size (especially after the trauma of Josie’s birth) would have been a much stronger statement of concern for her and her well-being.</p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1550">Discuss this post on the NLQ forum!</a></em>  Comments are also open below.</p>
<p><strong><em>More from Hopewell:</em></strong></p>
<p><em><a href="http://quiverfullmyblog.wordpress.com/">A FULL QUIVER OF INFORMATION</a> [my information only site]<br />
<a href="http://hopewellmomschoolreborn.blogspot.com/">Personal Blog</a></em></p>
<h3><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/hopewell/">Read all posts by Hopewell!</a></h3>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>Carefully Scripted Lives &#8211; The Real Reality of the Duggar Family &#8220;Blessings&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/02/26/carefully-scripted-lives-the-real-reality-of-the-duggar-family-blessings/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/02/26/carefully-scripted-lives-the-real-reality-of-the-duggar-family-blessings/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Feb 2012 12:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=16250</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: center;"><span style="color: #008000;"><em><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/?attachment_id=16251" rel="attachment wp-att-16251"><img class="aligncenter  wp-image-16251" title="screen-capture-1" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/screen-capture-1-1024x247.png" alt="" width="717" height="173" /></a></strong></em></span></p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: #008000;"><em><strong>by Libby Anne</strong></em></span></p>
I can’t say how often I’ve heard ordinary Americans defend Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar and their popular TLC television show, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_Kids_and_Counting">19 Kids and Counting</a>. “I wouldn’t choose to have nineteen kids,” they say, “but if they can manage it, who am I to question their choice?” “The kids look happy and healthy,” they say, “look how polite and well mannered they are.” I hear these comments and I just have to sigh.

First of all, I want to pout out that I would have concerns about the Duggars even if they <em>were</em> your ordinary family plus seventeen extra children. For one thing, there is no way any two parents can give nineteen children the individual attention and time they need. It’s just not feasibly possible. The Duggars like to say that “love multiplies,” but the thing is, <em>time</em> doesn’t. And then, of course, there is the population issue.

But it’s not these things I’m going to discuss here. The fact is, the Duggars aren’t just your ordinary family plus seventeen extra children. There is a great deal of editing that goes into making TV, and one thing that gets edited out are the Duggars’ religious beliefs and their beliefs about child rearing. There is <em>much, much</em> more going on here than you see on TV.

I know this because I grew up in a family very much like the Duggars. We had a third fewer kids and we didn’t have a TV show, but otherwise it was about the same. Our beliefs were nearly identical to theirs, as was our way of living. When I look at the older Duggar girls, I see myself. I was them. With that in mind, I’m going to take a moment to outline nine specific concerns I have about the Duggars.

<strong>1. Isolation and Indoctrination</strong>

The Duggar childern are homeschooled in part in order to shelter them from bad influences, i.e. from other kids and teachers who hold different beliefs or live different sorts of lives. The Duggar kids don’t have friends who aren’t pre-approved by their parents. In fact, the Duggar kids aren’t even involved in church activities – their family participates in a “home church” where they and several other like-minded families get together on Sunday mornings and worship together.

Furthermore, even the older Duggar children are not allowed to go anywhere without having an “accountability partner,” i.e. another sibling, to keep tabs on them. When one of the older boys volunteered at the local fire department, one of his sisters always went with him to keep an eye on him and make sure he didn’t get in trouble.

Another reason the Duggar children are homeschooled is in order to teach them “God’s truth.” This means that they use religious textbooks, creationist science curriculum, etc. I understand that we have this thing called “freedom of religion” in our country, but I also believe that children have a right to an education, and teaching children one side of everything becomes indoctrination rather than education.

Not surprisingly, the Duggars’ computers have internet access limited to about seventy “approved” websites. To get unlimited internet access, the children – even the older ones – have to get a password from their mother and then have another sibling sitting by them watching the screen as they surf the web to make sure they stay out of trouble. The main reason for this is likely to keep the children from viewing internet pornography, but it also helps ensure that they don’t get subversive information or other viewpoints.

<strong>2. Children raising children</strong>

If you think Michelle is the one raising all of those kids, think again. Those older daughters, some of them already adults, are the ones who are actually doing the majority of the cooking, cleaning, and childcare. They are, in effect, raising their younger siblings.

Now I’m not saying Michelle sits back and watches soap operas while the kids work, but rather that with that many children there is simply too much for her to do on her own. She doesn’t have the time or energy to raise her children without her older daughters’ help. And fortunately, because the Duggars homeschool, those older daughters are available to help 24/7.

The Duggars have this thing called the “buddy system.” When each new child is born, that child is assigned to one of the older children. In this way, the older children are responsible for dressing, feeding, and even educating the younger children. Michelle had<a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/04/21/michelle-duggar-to-accept-mother-of-the-year-award-at-vision-forums-triumph-of-life-baby-conference/">this</a> to say about the buddy system:
<blockquote>This house would not work if we didn’t have the buddy system. The older children mentor the younger ones. They help them with their little phonics lessons and games during the day, help them practice their music lessons. They will play with them or help them pick out the color of their outfit that they want to wear that day, and just all of those types of things.</blockquote>
I’m all for siblings helping each other and playing together, but this goes way further than this. This is siblings <em>raising</em> each other. And as we’ll see, this means a lot of sacrifice for the older siblings doing the raising.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p style="text-align: center;"><span style="color: #008000;"><em><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/02/26/carefully-scripted-lives-the-real-reality-of-the-duggar-family-blessings/screen-capture-1-3/" rel="attachment wp-att-16251"><img class="aligncenter  wp-image-16251" title="screen-capture-1" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/screen-capture-1-1024x247.png" alt="" width="717" height="173" /></a></strong></em></span></p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><span style="color: #008000;"><em><strong>by Libby Anne</strong></em></span></p>
<p>I can’t say how often I’ve heard ordinary Americans defend Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar and their popular TLC television show, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_Kids_and_Counting">19 Kids and Counting</a>. “I wouldn’t choose to have nineteen kids,” they say, “but if they can manage it, who am I to question their choice?” “The kids look happy and healthy,” they say, “look how polite and well mannered they are.” I hear these comments and I just have to sigh.</p>
<p>First of all, I want to point out that I would have concerns about the Duggars even if they <em>were</em> your ordinary family plus seventeen extra children. For one thing, there is no way any two parents can give nineteen children the individual attention and time they need. It’s just not feasibly possible. The Duggars like to say that “love multiplies,” but the thing is, <em>time</em> doesn’t. And then, of course, there is the population issue.</p>
<p>But it’s not these things I’m going to discuss here. The fact is, the Duggars aren’t just your ordinary family plus seventeen extra children. There is a great deal of editing that goes into making TV, and one thing that gets edited out are the Duggars’ religious beliefs and their beliefs about child rearing. There is <em>much, much</em> more going on here than you see on TV.</p>
<p>I know this because I grew up in a family very much like the Duggars. We had a third fewer kids and we didn’t have a TV show, but otherwise it was about the same. Our beliefs were nearly identical to theirs, as was our way of living. When I look at the older Duggar girls, I see myself. I was them. With that in mind, I’m going to take a moment to outline nine specific concerns I have about the Duggars.</p>
<p><strong>1. Isolation and Indoctrination</strong></p>
<p>The Duggar childern are homeschooled in part in order to shelter them from bad influences, i.e. from other kids and teachers who hold different beliefs or live different sorts of lives. The Duggar kids don’t have friends who aren’t pre-approved by their parents. In fact, the Duggar kids aren’t even involved in church activities – their family participates in a “home church” where they and several other like-minded families get together on Sunday mornings and worship together.</p>
<p>Furthermore, even the older Duggar children are not allowed to go anywhere without having an “accountability partner,” i.e. another sibling, to keep tabs on them. When one of the older boys volunteered at the local fire department, one of his sisters always went with him to keep an eye on him and make sure he didn’t get in trouble.</p>
<p>Another reason the Duggar children are homeschooled is in order to teach them “God’s truth.” This means that they use religious textbooks, creationist science curriculum, etc. I understand that we have this thing called “freedom of religion” in our country, but I also believe that children have a right to an education, and teaching children one side of everything becomes indoctrination rather than education.</p>
<p>Not surprisingly, the Duggars’ computers have internet access limited to about seventy “approved” websites. To get unlimited internet access, the children – even the older ones – have to get a password from their mother and then have another sibling sitting by them watching the screen as they surf the web to make sure they stay out of trouble. The main reason for this is likely to keep the children from viewing internet pornography, but it also helps ensure that they don’t get subversive information or other viewpoints.</p>
<p><strong>2. Children raising children</strong></p>
<p>If you think Michelle is the one raising all of those kids, think again. Those older daughters, some of them already adults, are the ones who are actually doing the majority of the cooking, cleaning, and childcare. They are, in effect, raising their younger siblings.</p>
<p>Now I’m not saying Michelle sits back and watches soap operas while the kids work, but rather that with that many children there is simply too much for her to do on her own. She doesn’t have the time or energy to raise her children without her older daughters’ help. And fortunately, because the Duggars homeschool, those older daughters are available to help 24/7.</p>
<p>The Duggars have this thing called the “buddy system.” When each new child is born, that child is assigned to one of the older children. In this way, the older children are responsible for dressing, feeding, and even educating the younger children. Michelle had<a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/04/21/michelle-duggar-to-accept-mother-of-the-year-award-at-vision-forums-triumph-of-life-baby-conference/">this</a> to say about the buddy system:</p>
<blockquote><p>This house would not work if we didn’t have the buddy system. The older children mentor the younger ones. They help them with their little phonics lessons and games during the day, help them practice their music lessons. They will play with them or help them pick out the color of their outfit that they want to wear that day, and just all of those types of things.</p></blockquote>
<p>I’m all for siblings helping each other and playing together, but this goes way further than this. This is siblings <em>raising</em> each other. And as we’ll see, this means a lot of sacrifice for the older siblings doing the raising.</p>
<p><strong>3. Authoritarian discipline</strong></p>
<p>Though they have not directly admitted it, <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/11/10/but-they-look-so-happy/">there is a lot to indicate</a> that the Duggars follow <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/lovejoyfeminism/category/michael-and-debi-pearl/">Michael and Debi Pearl’s discipline methods</a>. This means they require absolute obedience from their children and see even bad attitudes as signs of disobedience. It also means they use corporal punishment. The Pearls suggest that you begin to spank your children at around six months, and they urge parents to spank a disobedient child until that child submits completely. Complete submission to the parent’s will is the hallmark of the Pearls’ teachings. Here is a quote:</p>
<blockquote><p>If you are just beginning to institute training on an already rebellious child, who runs from discipline and is too incoherent to listen, then use whatever force is necessary to bring him to bay. If you have to sit on him to spank him then do not hesitate. And hold him there until he is surrendered. Prove that you are bigger, tougher, more patiently enduring and are unmoved by his wailing. Defeat him totally. Accept no conditions for surrender. No compromise. You are to rule over him as a benevolent sovereign. Your word is final. (<em>To Train Up A Child,</em> page 49)</p></blockquote>
<p>The Duggars have stated that they use <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanket_training">blanket training</a>. What they do is place a baby on a blanket and tell the baby not to get off. If the baby crawls off, he or she is spanked on the leg, told “no,” and placed back on the blanket. If you do this for long enough, the baby will learn to stay on the blanket, and then you can safely leave the baby there while you cook lunch or school the older ones. This all seems counter to the nature of a naturally curious baby.</p>
<p>Authoritarian discipline shuts off questions and leaves little room for children to explore. The emphasis on obedience overrides anything else, and as I’ve written before, this <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/lovejoyfeminism/2011/11/29/for-your-own-good-the-insidiousness-of-spanking/">can be</a><a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/lovejoyfeminism/2011/12/03/authoritarian-parenting-and-adult-children/">highly</a> <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/lovejoyfeminism/2011/12/02/spanking-fear-and-privileging-obedience/">problematic</a>.</p>
<p><strong>4. Bill Gothard and IBLP</strong></p>
<p>The Duggars are big fans of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gothard">Bill Gothard</a> and are enrolled in his <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_in_Basic_Life_Principles">Institutes for Basic Life Principles</a>. Outside of the circle of his followers, Bill Gothard is <a href="http://www.alternet.org/belief/149921/cultish_christian_leader_teaches_women_should_submit_to_husbands_--_victims_of_his_%22submission_theology%22_speak_out?page=3">frequently regarded</a> as <a href="http://www.batteredsheep.com/gothard.html">a cult leader</a>. He teaches, for instance, that troll dolls delay labor, that cabbage patch dolls are possessed by demons, and that Christians today must follow Old Testament sexual purity codes, including abstaining from sex the evening before weekly worship. Oh, and he teaches that tampons take girls’ virginity.</p>
<p>Until 2002 Gothard ran a group home for delinquent children in Indianapolis, Indiana. Children were sent there by the juvenile justice system for years until <a href="http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=818906&amp;ClientType=Printable">the place was closed down</a> under allegations of abuse, including Gothard’s notorious “prayer closets.” There has been <a href="http://www.recoveringgrace.org/">a growing movement</a> among young people raised on Gothard’s teachings to expose the abuse, physical, emotional, and spiritual, they suffered at the hand of Gothard and his multiple ministries, including orphanages in places like Russia.</p>
<p>What bothers me most about the Duggars’ involvement with Gothard and IBLP is their use of his “re-education” camps (my term). When Josh Duggar was showing some signs of being “rebellious” years ago, they sent him to Gothard’s military boot camp for young men, the ALERT Academy. He returned much subdued. They’ve done the same with some of the girls, sending them to Gothard’s Journey to the Heart programs, where they are reminded of how wicked and sinful they are and told again and again that following God means obeying their earthly parents.</p>
<p><strong>5. Emotional control</strong></p>
<p>The Duggar children are also taught to carefully control their emotions, and emotions like anger or ingratitude are not acceptable. I’ve often heard people argue in favor of the Duggars by stating that “they look so happy!” <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/11/10/but-they-look-so-happy/">Here</a> is an excerpt from blogger Dulce, who was raised on the same teachings as the Duggars, dealing specifically with this issue:</p>
<blockquote><p>One of the creepiest things about Gothard and the Pearls is that they teach that happy is the only acceptable emotion.  If you do not have a joyful countenance, you are publicly shaming your authorities.  In other words, if the kid looks unhappy, it is a personal offense against the parents.  Pearl also has nauseating quotes and anecdotes about how any time his kids expressed unhappiness or anger they were hit even harder and longer until they were cheerful.  How twisted is that?  Children are taught from babyhood to always be cheerful, or else they deserve a spanking.  As they grow older, it is not just the fear of a spanking that causes them to keep smiling.  It is the sincere belief that they are sinning with ingratitude, rebellion and more if they don’t present a happy face.</p></blockquote>
<p>As I said earlier that a bad attitude is seen as rebellion, and immediately dealt with. I have no idea whether the Duggar children are happy or not, but I know that if they are unhappy they aren’t allowed to express it, especially for the TV cameras (being a Christian “witness” to the world and all that jazz).</p>
<p><strong>6. A quiver full of expectations</strong></p>
<p>As I said in my <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/lovejoyfeminism/2012/02/18/what-is-quiverfull-an-faq/">introduction</a> to the Quiverfull movement, Quiverfull is more than just seeing children as a gift from God. It’s also about seeing children as potential culture warriors. Children are “arrows” who are to be sent out into the world spreading the gospel and Christian values and replicating their parents beliefs and lifestyles. This mindset leaves little room for children who may differ from their parents or what a different sort of life.</p>
<p>In a family influenced by Quiverfull beliefs, children who embrace different beliefs or ways of life from their parents are seen as failures. The idea is to raise <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/lovejoyfeminism/2011/09/09/michael-pearl-on-children-who-leave/">ideological clones</a>. The amount of <a href="http://lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/2011/06/too-great-expectations.html">expectations</a> this places on children is immense. I really don’t know what those older Duggar kids want out of life, but I do know that if they want something different from what their parents want for them they are in for a lot of trouble, a lot of emotional manipulation, and a lot of guilt.</p>
<p><strong>7. A patriarchal family order</strong></p>
<p>The main emphasis in the Christian Patriarchy movement, as I pointed out in my<a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/lovejoyfeminism/2012/02/19/what-is-christian-patriarchy-an-introduction/">introduction</a> to it, is on a hierarchical family order where each member plays his or her role and everyone stays in their place.  As an example, click <a href="http://www.southheightsbaptist.com/mp3/CliffPalmer/7BasicNeeds_Husband.pdf">here</a> and <a href="http://www.southheightsbaptist.com/mp3/CliffPalmer/7BasicNeeds_Wife.pdf">here</a> to see what the teachings the Duggars follow regarding the proper role of the husband and of the wife. The gist is, of course, that the husband is to lead and the wife is to submit.</p>
<p>The main way this plays out for the children is threefold. First, the children are required to obey their parents without exception. Second, the children are being raised for their future roles – the boys are to be providers and protectors and the girls are to be homemakers. They’re taught this from day one. Third, daughters are taught that they must obey their father even after they become adults.</p>
<p>Those older Duggar girls have been taught that they are under their father’s authority, and that they must follow his will for them. His commands are absolute, just as their obedience is to be absolute. By obeying their father, they are preparing for the time when they will similarly obey their future husbands. Furthermore, by staying at home rather than leaving the home to attend college or get a job, they are preparing to spend their lives as homemakers, as mandated by their gender.</p>
<p><strong>8. Courtship, modesty, and purity</strong></p>
<p>Like many Americans, the Duggars teach their children to remain sexually abstinent until marriage. But they go further, teaching that even kissing should wait until the wedding day. Furthermore, virginity is not just physical, it is also <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/lovejoyfeminism/2011/09/10/love-virginity/">emotional</a>. “Giving away pieces of your heart” through crushes or childhood romances is viewed as permanently damaging, and sexual thoughts are strictly forbidden.</p>
<p>The Duggar girls are also taught that they must dress extremely modestly so as not to “tempt” their “brethren in Christ” (why is this always the female’s responsibility?). That is, of course, what is behind their long jean skirts. This sort of emphasis on “modesty” can be damaging to both <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/11/22/how-modesty-made-me-fat/">girls</a> and <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2012/02/14/how-the-modesty-doctrine-hurts-men-too/">boys</a>.</p>
<p>In addition, the Duggars believe that their children should find spouses through parent-guided “courtships” rather than through dating. Dating is portrayed as “practice for divorce” rather than more realistically as “practice for carrying out relationships.” I’ll give an overview of what such a courtship looks like below, but for a young woman’s excellent courtship story, which finishes with damning analysis, click <a href="http://ayoungmomsmusings.blogspot.com/2011/02/listen-for-singing-my-courtship-story.html">here</a>.</p>
<p>First a young man goes to a young woman’s father and asks to court her, and the father says either yes or no (or sometimes maybe later). The young woman is given the chance to veto the courtship if she is not interested in the young man. If a young woman has her eye on a guy, she can share that with her father and he can possibly talk to the young man or the young man’s father, but she can’t initiate anything herself.</p>
<p>A courting couple is ever under the watchful eye of parents and other chaperons, and sometimes is not given a chance of privacy at all. The father can call or suspend the courtship off at any time for any reason. Eventually, if the courtship goes well, the young man asks the young woman’s father for permission to marry her, and if he obtains that permission he asks the young woman, and if she says yes a wedding follows almost immediately.</p>
<p><strong>9. No teenagers allowed</strong></p>
<p>Perhaps the most disconcerting thing about the Duggars is that their older children aren’t allowed to be teenagers or make their own choices. You can see this strung throughout this entire post.</p>
<p>The older children spend their teen years raising their younger siblings and are only allowed friends from a small pool of approved families. Their access to the internet is strongly curtailed, and they aren’t allowed to go anywhere without an “accountability partner.” Disobedience or ingratitude is seen as rebellion and dealt with swiftly and immediately, sometimes through one of Gothard’s many “re-education” camps. Extreme modesty is enforced and dating is forbidden. Contact with the opposite sex is watched closely. Adult daughters are expected to obey their father’s will for them, are taught that being a homemaker is their God-mandated role in life, and are only allowed to marry through a courtship controlled by their fathers. Furthermore, teen and adult children are expected to adopt their parents exact beliefs and way of life, and any other option is seen as failure.</p>
<p>All this is seen as a good thing. Just like my parents, you see, the Duggars <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/lovejoyfeminism/2011/09/12/we-dont-do-teenagers/">don’t believe in teenagers</a>. Let me quote myself on this issue:</p>
<blockquote><p>It’s true that the word teenager is less than a hundred years old, and it’s true that our current modern conception of the teenager is new. But the reality is, in our society today, being a teenager is not simply about gossip and boys and a lack of responsibility, it’s about figuring out who you are as an entity separate from your family and their beliefs. Because I was never allowed to be a teenager, I never differentiated myself from my parents at all. I never learned who <em>I </em>was. I was never allowed to.</p>
<p>While I do wish I had been allowed to be a teenager in external trappings – clothes, dating, hanging out at the mall – what I really regret about not being allowed to be a teenager is not the material trappings but rather not ever separating myself and my identity from those of my parents. I wish I had been allowed to be different from them, and encouraged to find my own interests and beliefs. I wish I hadn’t been so enmeshed in my parents’ lives and identities as to lose myself completely.</p></blockquote>
<p>The Duggar children are given no real chance to differentiate from their parents and to explore what they themselves believe and want from life. Instead, they are set off along a prescribed path and are quickly nudged back onto it if they so much as angle to toward the edge. Rather than forging their own paths, the Duggar children are expected to simply follow the path forged by their parents. No questions, no buts, no backtalk.</p>
<p>Have you noticed that all the Duggar girls share one room and all the Duggar boys share another? Michelle said that’s because that’s how the children wanted it – they didn’t want to be separated. That may well be true, but it’s worth noting that when you share your room with your eight sisters, some still toddlers or babies, it’s really hard to find a moment of privacy or a place for sharing secrets.</p>
<p><strong>Conclusion</strong></p>
<p>Most of this stuff doesn’t come across on the TV show, does it? On the TV show the Duggars try to portray themselves as just one big happy family following God’s commands – a witness to others. What you don’t see is that the Duggar children live lives in a fishbowl, carefully scripted lives from which no dissent or differentiation is allowed. Their lives are laid out for them, and growing up is not about exploration but rather fulfilling the expectations of their parents. Conformity is key and stepping out of line is not acceptable.</p>
<p>Bowing to negative publicity, the Duggars recently enrolled some of their children, including the older girls, in <a href="http://www.collegeplus.org/">an online college program</a> highly <a href="http://www.visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/2007/10/3021/">promoted by premier Christian Patriarchy group Vision Forum</a>. This program promises bachelors degrees in as little as two years and has the advantage of keeping the Duggar children safely under their parents’ watchful eyes. Not surprisingly, the girls are interested in studying things like nursing and midwifery. I have no idea whether they’ll actually finish, but it would be great for those older girls if they were able to get college degrees of some sort, because it might open more horizons for them in the future.</p>
<p>As for what’s in the future for the Duggar kids, if all follows their parents’ plans the boys will be set up with careers of some sort and will court girls from like-minded families and then start their own families with a baby at least every other year. We’ve already seen Josh Duggar follow this prescribed path.</p>
<p>The Duggar girls, in contrast, will remain at home until some suitable suitor approaches Jim Bob to ask to court them, and they will then move to their own homes <a href="http://rethinkingvisionforum.wordpress.com/2011/08/24/vision-forum-daughters-college-regret/">to continue their duty as homemakers</a> and begin having numerous children of their own.</p>
<p>If things work out differently, though, and one or more of the Duggar kids strike out on their own, I can only guess how hard things will be for them. And I have to say, the TV cameras and publicity won’t help. I can only wish them the best.</p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1541">Discuss this post on the NLQ forum!</a>  Comments are also open below.</em></p>
<p><em>Libby Anne lives with her husband and toddler somewhere in the U.S. She has left patriarchy for feminism and has found freedom. She is a graduate student with big plans for her life. You can read her blog at <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/lovejoyfeminism" target="_blank">Love</a></em><a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/lovejoyfeminism" target="_blank">, Joy, Feminism</a><a href="http://lovejoyfeminism.blogspot.com/">.</a></p>
<h3><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/nlqstories/libby-anne/">Read all posts by Libby Anne!</a></h3>
<p>T<em>his post was originally published at <a href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/lovejoyfeminism" target="_blank">Love, Joy, Feminism</a>– crossposted by permission.</em></p>
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		<title>Justice is No Lady: Chapter 9 &#8211; Terrorists, Far and Near</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/10/06/justice-is-no-lady-chapter-9-terrorists-far-and-near/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/10/06/justice-is-no-lady-chapter-9-terrorists-far-and-near/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Oct 2011 12:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[A Woman's Choice]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[<em>Warning: This story series contains descriptions of physical abuse.</em>

<a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/08/15/justice-is-no-lady-prologue-final-break/defenant-rising-2/" rel="attachment wp-att-7259"><img class="alignleft" title="defenant rising" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/defenant-rising1.jpg" alt="" width="276" height="183" /></a>

<span style="color: #008000;"><strong><em>by Tess Willoughby</em></strong></span>

September 11, 2001. This dark day united all Americans in horror, in terror, and in pain.

With at least one exception: Nate Willoughby.

I found out that our country had been attacked using our own commercial aircraft when my mother called me from town and said, “Turn on the news.” Her tone of voice suggested the worst of the worst of the worst: so awful that you didn’t ask “what channel?” because it didn’t matter what channel. The president had been assassinated. There was some horrific, unthinkable natural disaster, probably in Virginia. Something so bad she couldn’t say it.

I hung up, turned on the TV and watched the Twin Towers burn, holding the phone in my hand.

The phone rang. I hit the answer button. Nate lit into me about how I needed to come back to him and I was in rebellion against God and would probably go to hell.

I swallowed and sat on the floor and said, “Are you aware that terrorists have attacked New York City? The World Trade Center is burning!”

Nate said, “Who cares. We’re talking about <em>my</em> life.”

I hung up on him and sobbed and choked in front of the TV until I didn’t have any more strength to cry. How mean and insane was my husband? How would I ever get away from this vindictive bastard without being destroyed? Was Nate even human? Was my country’s government about to fall? How many more planes had been hijacked, and what would blow up next? It felt as though my own personal hell had unleashed national horrors and worldwide chaos. The lid had blown off life itself and nothing venerable, nothing precious, nothing good could stand. My own personal, religious zealot terrorist had gone global somehow and the world was burning and crumbling to the ground; nothing and nobody was safe from crazy men with extreme religious agendas.

Post-traumatic stress does funky things with your brain. That September, I believed that I had landed in a world without personal boundaries, without national security: a world of merciless anarchy where freedom was not only impossible but a joke and and an illusion. A world where terrorists could strike anywhere and nightmarish, ruinously expensive court hearings never ended, but God was silent. I believed that I could lose absolutely everything, even my nation. If not for my parents, I would have lost my sanity.

<p style="text-align: right;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/10/06/justice-is-no-lady-chapter-9-terrorists-far-and-near/">Full post ...</a></strong></span></p>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Warning: This story series contains descriptions of physical abuse.</em></p>
<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/08/15/justice-is-no-lady-prologue-final-break/defenant-rising-2/" rel="attachment wp-att-7259"><img class="alignleft" title="defenant rising" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/defenant-rising1.jpg" alt="" width="276" height="183" /></a></p>
<p><span style="color: #008000;"><strong><em>by Tess Willoughby</em></strong></span></p>
<p>September 11, 2001. This dark day united all Americans in horror, in terror, and in pain.</p>
<p>With at least one exception: Nate Willoughby.</p>
<p>I found out that our country had been attacked using our own commercial aircraft when my mother called me from town and said, “Turn on the news.” Her tone of voice suggested the worst of the worst of the worst: so awful that you didn’t ask “what channel?” because it didn’t matter what channel. The president had been assassinated. There was some horrific, unthinkable natural disaster, probably in Virginia. Something so bad she couldn’t say it.</p>
<p>I hung up, turned on the TV and watched the Twin Towers burn, holding the phone in my hand.</p>
<p>The phone rang. I hit the answer button. Nate lit into me about how I needed to come back to him and I was in rebellion against God and would probably go to hell.</p>
<p>I swallowed and sat on the floor and said, “Are you aware that terrorists have attacked New York City? The World Trade Center is burning!”</p>
<p>Nate said, “Who cares. We’re talking about <em>my</em> life.”</p>
<p>I hung up on him and sobbed and choked in front of the TV until I didn’t have any more strength to cry. How mean and insane was my husband? How would I ever get away from this vindictive bastard without being destroyed? Was Nate even human? Was my country’s government about to fall? How many more planes had been hijacked, and what would blow up next? It felt as though my own personal hell had unleashed national horrors and worldwide chaos. The lid had blown off life itself and nothing venerable, nothing precious, nothing good could stand. My own personal, religious zealot terrorist had gone global somehow and the world was burning and crumbling to the ground; nothing and nobody was safe from crazy men with extreme religious agendas.</p>
<p>Post-traumatic stress does funky things with your brain. That September, I believed that I had landed in a world without personal boundaries, without national security: a world of merciless anarchy where freedom was not only impossible but a joke and and an illusion. A world where terrorists could strike anywhere and nightmarish, ruinously expensive court hearings never ended, but God was silent. I believed that I could lose absolutely everything, even my nation. If not for my parents, I would have lost my sanity.</p>
<p>My divorce lawyer had been worn down by Nate’s bullying to the breaking point. She was pushing me to agree to a no-fault divorce with all legal issues reserved for later. She would do nothing to get me any permanent alimony, nothing to get me any property, nothing to get me permanent custody of my children, nothing to help me with the personal injury suit, nothing at all except to sign a no-fault divorce decree now that the year-long waiting period was over.  She made it clear that I had no choice in this—in order to continue to represent me, she would have to hire additional staff to keep up with Nate, who had her completely buried in paperwork.</p>
<p>My lawyer was quitting, and she hated to bring it up but. . .I owed her $30,000.00. When my dad and I couldn’t pay any more, she put me on a payment plan. When we couldn’t make the payments, she turned me over to a collection agency. That collection agency, Chase and Citibank (Nate had credit cards in my name, remember?) called me every day.</p>
<p>Nate paid no child support, of course. He had a child support <em>matter</em> filed in court (the first of six), and was appealing the alimony, so would not be sending a dime while a decision or appeal was pending. Because the children and I were on public assistance, I got Legal Aid in Virginia Beach, but they would only help with the equitable distribution matter because of limited resources. On the custody/alimony/ child support matter, and the personal injury matter, I was on my own; I would have to drive six hours and represent myself.  Another lawyer in Virginia Beach was unaffordable.</p>
<p>Why so many matters? Why so many cases? you may be wondering. The judges found it more economical for the court to farm out the matters to multiple judges rather than one judge hearing the whole mess, since Nate files multiple motions per hearing and rants and raves for hours. Every separate matter in turn quickly became a legal swamp with its own morass of motions to respond to, discovery to answer, and subpoenas to move to quash. Litigating with Nate has always been like fighting the Hydra. You lop off one hearing but that hearing spawns three more hearings; answer one motion and get three more in the mail; quash one subpoena and get notice of three more. In Virginia, a lawyer can file his own subpoenas without going through any court, so Nate subpoenaed everything and everybody he could think of for every hearing. He quickly overwhelmed the whole judicial population of the Virginia Beach Circuit Court. The first judge, who returned Moriah to me after her dad kidnapped her out of school, stepped down after Nate filed a writ of mandamus against her with the Virginia Supreme Court.</p>
<p>Legal Aid got me nothing in equitable distribution except the stuff I ran away with. The judge ruled that I kept what I had in my possession and Nate kept what he had in his possession. Nate had taken out a second mortgage on our house without my knowledge, plus run up the debut on the credit cards, and so Nate persuaded the judge that in order to split the property 50/50, it was only fair that the marital debt also be divided 50/50. The judge bought this argument, and I got nothing. Not even the children’s toys.</p>
<p>This is going to sound idiotic but I’m going to say it anyway: even though I’m moderate now and voted for Barack Obama and probably will vote for him again, I can’t hate George W. Bush like so many of my good friends do. I detest the Patriot Act and hate the war even more, but I was on welfare with six little kids when the terrorists attacked and about to lose everything I owned in the courts. After 9/11, it was the president who gave me the reassurance that I might lose everything else—all my belongings and even eventually my children—but I wouldn’t lose my country. I’d still be American, and Americans have always been bullheaded enough to hang onto the faith that they <em>can</em> get free. No matter who or what is standing in the way.</p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1181">Discuss this post on the NLQ forum!</a></em></p>
<p><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/nlqstories/tess-willoughby/">Read all posts by Tess Willoughby!</a></strong></p>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<item>
		<title>Family Man, Family Leader: In Conclusion</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/09/04/family-man-family-leader-in-conclusion/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/09/04/family-man-family-leader-in-conclusion/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2011 15:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Doug Phillips]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[To Train Up A Child (TTUAC) by Michael Pearl]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=12887</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[by LivingForEternity The other day my husband came to me and confessed that sharing our story was just very painful for him to the point of tears. Out of love and respect for him I am submitting by not continuing to tell what we have been through. He did not ask me not to, but the <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/09/04/family-man-family-leader-in-conclusion/"><b>Full post ...</b></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/09/08/family-man-family-leader-intro-happily-recovering-from-the-devastating-effects-of-doug-phillips-and-vision-forum-views/family-man-family-leader/" rel="attachment wp-att-7867"><img class="alignleft" title="family man family leader" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/family-man-family-leader.jpg" alt="" width="179" height="177" /></a>by </em></strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&amp;user=bettone"><strong><em>LivingForEternity</em></strong></a></p>
<p>The other day my husband came to me and confessed that sharing our story was just very painful for him to the point of tears. Out of love and respect for him I am submitting by not continuing to tell what we have been through. He did not ask me not to, but the last thing I want to do is hurt someone that I love so much. However, I would like to share where we are now, as how we got here really doesn’t matter. We choose to live from today and not let our past dictate who we are.</p>
<p>We no longer have an identity created by our marriage or our children. His identity is not bound to whether or not he is a perfect “leader” of his home. Mine is not tied to being the “perfect” wife and mother. We can never be those things. We could never achieve the perfection put forth by the Pearls, Doug Phillips, or any other mortal man. We were like beautiful tombs, but were dead inside. Our identity comes from trusting in the sacrifice of our Lord. The life I live is in faith, not faith in men, but faith in God. If my husband leaves I stand, if he stays I stand. We are who we are because It is finished, the work is done on our behalf.</p>
<p>This had given us freedom that we never knew. Before, we thought we had to be something or do something before our lives would be perfect. We had all these ideas from men, but when these ideas did not work out the way they promised we had to turn somewhere else. This compelled us to our answer, which was our faith. Is it perfect? No. We still stumble and misunderstand, but we have a peace now that was missing. We discovered through much study and prayer how we were supposed to treat each other. Not how some man said we should treat each other. We were in roles that were not intended for us to be in.</p>
<p>One thing we discovered is that we desire to be praised and worshiped. For me it was praise and honor that my marriage was intact and my kids well-behaved. Serving my family was not an act of love, but one of gaining praise for myself. A patriarchal dad is the center of his home or “kingdom”. He is worshiped by absolute obedience and getting his every desire. When our son began to rebel, and I was so unhappy in my marriage I was shattered. Everything I had worked for was not turning out the way I wanted. My husband was really unhappy trying to strive for this worship, because he was not created to be worshiped. He was created to worship.</p>
<p>We both felt condemned, because our life was not the perfect rosy picture of happiness religious men had told us it should be. We were condemned because our older children weren’t the picture of obedience, condemned because I worked out of the home, condemned for the music we listened to, and on and on. This unhappiness led us to the discovery of Romans 8:1-2. We had read it many times before but it never spoke to us. Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death. We had bound ourselves to the laws of men’s interpretation. So now we will stand in the knowledge that it is for freedom that Christ has set us free. We will stand firm, then, and not let ourselves be burdened again by the yoke of slavery.</p>
<p>We realized that Phillips and the Pearls really have a narrow vision that can’t be applicable universally. We believe God is universal and cross-cultural. We had separated ourselves from the “bad” influences of the world. We wanted to keep our family “protected”. We lived in fear, which was wrong, because perfect love casts away fear. When Jesus walked the earth many of his friends were whores and thieves. He loved these people. The “religious” people on the other hand were constantly subject to His wrath. We were the “religious.”  This was hard for us to accept about ourselves. We had scorned the very people that Jesus loved. Since then we have opened our lives to many more people, and have been greatly blessed. We are confident that He who began a good work will complete it no matter who is in our lives.</p>
<p>One of the most important things we have learned is not to take ourselves too seriously. This can lead to hurt feelings, resentment, and bitterness. So we consider each other and look not only to our own interest, but to the interest of each other. Bitterness can destroy a person, so we have been gifted with the ability to let things go that have happened to us or things that we really can’t control. We bear with each other and forgive because we have been forgiven.</p>
<p>Notice that I say we. This has been a journey that we have taken mutually, and for that we are grateful. Neither of us could have done it without the other, nor would we be where we are today without the other being on this journey. Do we have the perfect, rosy marriage? No, but our vision is much clearer. This allows us to walk together in love and unity. If the unity is broken we have the tools to fix it. We had no one but each other on this journey, and that was good. We have been to many marriage seminars in the past, but they never helped like just being with each other through our trials. We are so very cautious now about the advice of men. It is always filtered through each other, prayer, and scripture.</p>
<p>The hardest thing we had to deal with was being totally open and honest with each other. That is naked and unashamed. I am not talking about being physically clothed or not, but about who we truly are and how we truly feel. We were guilty of putting conditions on our love, both with each other and our children.  In the past we were afraid to share our true selves, because of the possible condemnation. Finally being able to do this with each other has been the best part of this journey. The comfort we feel around each other has made a powerful difference in our lives. I am truly a better person, because of my husband and his unconditional love.</p>
<p>This is simply our story, and is not meant for advice to anyone. We have had enough advice to last us for eternity. It is our wish that it be an encouragement.</p>
<p>I would like to thank Vyckie for her courage in starting this website. Krwordgazer you have filled in so many gaps in my understanding. You have been blessed with a wonderful gift. Journey, Africaturtle, Dragonfly, Mamaloo, Calalu you have encouraged me with your courage and determination. Keep it up. Tess, I so want your story to have a happy ending. We are survivors.</p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1094">Discuss this post on the NLQ forum.</a> Comments are also open below ~ please feel free to add your well-wishes to LivingForEternity and her family.</em></p>
<p><strong></strong><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/nlqstories/livingforeternity/">Read all posts by LivingForEternity!</a></strong></p>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>Justice Is No Lady: Chapter 8 ~ Backlash</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/09/01/justice-is-no-lady-chapter-8-backlash/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/09/01/justice-is-no-lady-chapter-8-backlash/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 12:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[A Woman's Choice]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=12855</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<em>Warning: This story series contains descriptions of physical abuse.</em>

<a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/08/15/justice-is-no-lady-prologue-final-break/defenant-rising-2/" rel="attachment wp-att-7259"><img class="alignleft" title="defenant rising" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/defenant-rising1.jpg" alt="" width="276" height="183" /></a>

<span style="color: #008000;"><strong><em>by Defendant Rising</em></strong></span>

<strong>Part Two: The Legal Aftermath</strong>

I fled to the farm where I grew up and spent several weeks just trying to get the fuzz out of my head. I went to the doctor, who diagnosed Abi with failure to thrive. I supplemented her with formula but continued to breastfeed, because for once I had the luxury of breastfeeding by my own lights, and I intended to enjoy it. I moved six kids, 9 years old and under, in with my mom and dad, who were absolute angels about it.  I do not remember either of them complaining even once.

What were Tess’s long-term plans? Did I want separation? Divorce? Neither? Was God angry with me? Could I ever go back? I just stumbled through the days, utterly numb. I could not feel the presence of God, which struck terror into my heart. I could not pray, and opening a Bible freaked me out. Where had my faith gone? What <em>did</em> I believe? My thoughts were like muddy water that must be filtered through normality until the water runs clear. It took a long time to get clear, and in the meantime, I made a very costly mistake.

I filed for legal separation but then withdrew my action. Here is how this went down:

Nate called four or five times a day. He also sent multiple long emails every day. A few highlights:
<ul>
	<li>“I will counter-sue for divorce on fault-grounds of desertion.”</li>
	<li>“Venue (where the divorce will be held) is where the marital home is. You will have to travel back and forth repeatedly.”</li>
	<li>“I will avail myself in good faith of every legal procedure available. This means massive expense to your father. I will appeal any and all negative decisions.”</li>
	<li>“As I am living in the marital home, you will lose the [custody] fight. And of course, if I have the kids you will be paying me child support.”</li>
</ul>
In every email and phone call, Nate demanded that I come home immediately. In one email he made a condition: “Because of your hart [sic] heartedness and manifold sins against me, I will require that you sign an oath before God that you will submit to my authority completely, without question or dissention, and joyfully.”
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Warning: This story series contains descriptions of physical abuse.</em></p>
<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/08/15/justice-is-no-lady-prologue-final-break/defenant-rising-2/" rel="attachment wp-att-7259"><img class="alignleft" title="defenant rising" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/defenant-rising1.jpg" alt="" width="276" height="183" /></a></p>
<p><span style="color: #008000;"><strong><em>by Tess Willoughby</em></strong></span></p>
<p><strong>Part Two: The Legal Aftermath</strong></p>
<p>I fled to the farm where I grew up and spent several weeks just trying to get the fuzz out of my head. I went to the doctor, who diagnosed Abi with failure to thrive. I supplemented her with formula but continued to breastfeed, because for once I had the luxury of breastfeeding by my own lights, and I intended to enjoy it. I moved six kids, 9 years old and under, in with my mom and dad, who were absolute angels about it.  I do not remember either of them complaining even once.</p>
<p>What were Tess’s long-term plans? Did I want separation? Divorce? Neither? Was God angry with me? Could I ever go back? I just stumbled through the days, utterly numb. I could not feel the presence of God, which struck terror into my heart. I could not pray, and opening a Bible freaked me out. Where had my faith gone? What <em>did</em> I believe? My thoughts were like muddy water that must be filtered through normality until the water runs clear. It took a long time to get clear, and in the meantime, I made a very costly mistake.</p>
<p>I filed for legal separation but then withdrew my action. Here is how this went down:</p>
<p>Nate called four or five times a day. He also sent multiple long emails every day. A few highlights:</p>
<ul>
<li style="text-align: left;">“I will counter-sue for divorce on fault-grounds of desertion.”</li>
<li style="text-align: left;">“Venue (where the divorce will be held) is where the marital home is. You will have to travel back and forth repeatedly.”</li>
<li style="text-align: left;">“I will avail myself in good faith of every legal procedure available. This means massive expense to your father. I will appeal any and all negative decisions.”</li>
<li style="text-align: left;">“As I am living in the marital home, you will lose the [custody] fight. And of course, if I have the kids you will be paying me child support.”</li>
</ul>
<p>In every email and phone call, Nate demanded that I come home immediately. In one email he made a condition: “Because of your hart [sic] heartedness and manifold sins against me, I will require that you sign an oath before God that you will submit to my authority completely, without question or dissention, and joyfully.”</p>
<p>Nate sent me the van in “good faith” to “work toward reconciliation,” but when reconciliation did not happen within his two-day deadline, he demanded the van back: his children’s sole transportation which was titled in his name. He threatened to prosecute me for possession of stolen property. He sued for divorce, alleging desertion and mental cruelty. He also sued as the children’s “next friend” against me for the “severe injuries” all six of them had suffered in the wreck (one child had a tiny cut above the eye). He sent my attorney dozens of faxes and called her office many times a day to run up my legal expenses. He mailed me the credit card bills which were in my name. He negotiated with my most prized possessions, using wedding gifts from my grandparents as bargaining chips. He demanded to talk to the children on the phone so that he could manipulate them into telling me to “come home.” They got off the phone and cried, saying, “Daddy is so lonely. Why did we leave him?”</p>
<p>Finally, Nate went bawling into the office of a pastor (not our pastor, of course) and got Rev. So-and-So to email me. Rev. So-and-So sent me the following proposition. We would declare a legal cease-fire and he would counsel with Nate. It was a terrible thing, Rev. So-and-So thought, to break up a family. He quoted the Bible on that score. He assured me that Nate was really repentant and seeking change. I did not want to even see Nate again, much less sleep with him, but I was still very deferential toward pastors and desperately wanted that legal cease-fire. I was not capable of traveling six hours to Virginia Beach for litigation. I was still very weak and confused and had six little kids to care for all summer. I felt guilty about the burden on my parents, which guilt Nate manipulated. My mother would have to take care of six kids so I could come to court and my father would have to pay the legal bills. I didn’t believe my lawyer when she said she could get a protective order that would keep Nate away from me and the kids, or that we would win the venue fight and I could go to court downtown, or that I would win the van in a lawsuit. Besides I had gotten a little foretaste of what even a winning legal battle with Nate would cost in time, money, and aggravation. Nate did nothing, it seemed, but sit at the computer churning out emails, letters, and legal papers around the clock. Some of the emails were composed at 2:00 a.m.</p>
<p>I dropped the legal separation and Nate dropped the divorce and the personal injury suit. The threatening emails became relentless, saccharine declarations of undying, “unconditional” love (Pastor So-and-So must have thought the submission oath was a bad idea).</p>
<p>This lasted for about a week, until Nate stormed into Pastor So-and-So’s office in a rabid froth about his marital rights. Pastor So-and-So emailed me, bewildered at the dramatic change in his penitent, who not only refused to continue the counseling, but damned Pastor So-and-So to hell for refusing to help exercise spiritual discipline over his wayward wife. Pastor So-and-So warned me not to come home.</p>
<p>Does it sound as though I had been gone at least a year or more, given the sheer number of tactics, schemes, scams, and coercions I’d suffered through to this point?</p>
<p>Guess again. Nate had done all this in <em>just shy of six weeks</em>.</p>
<p>I emailed Nate and told him I wasn’t coming back. Then I braced myself. Turns out I didn’t brace myself quite hard enough for what was coming, or how quickly.</p>
<p>Nate showed up at 3:00 a.m. the next morning and demanded the keys to the van or he would have us all arrested. My father gave him the keys and told him to get off his property or he’d be arrested for trespassing. I was crying over the loss of the van the next day when I got word that Nate had been at the children’s school and demanded to see his children. The principal brought them to the gym for a meeting, and Nate picked up little Moriah and ran, with the principal chasing him. The principal called me and the police, and I followed my former family van out of town in my mom’s car while having a panic attack. The police pulled Nate over but then let him go, because I had no custody papers.</p>
<p>The police had to pick me up out of a muddy ditch where I had collapsed, weeping, as my little girl was legally abducted. In Virginia, even if you have custody (which I didn’t), any parent who has visitation rights can abduct a child from anywhere at any time, and they are guilty of, at the most, a second-degree misdemeanor. Parental kidnappers are never subject to arrest in Virginia unless they cross state lines. It is believed that most of our missing children are missing because they were abducted by non-custodial parents. When your child is abducted by a parent who has any parental rights at all, your only recourse is to file a show cause and go to court. I would have to regain custody in Virginia Beach.</p>
<p>I got a lawyer in Virginia Beach and filed for divorce and custody. My attorney bills went into the stratosphere within a month. As with my former lawyer, phone calls and faxes were unceasing. One Sunday afternoon my lawyer received a 52-page fax from Nate. The personal injury suit was scheduled for trial as well.</p>
<p>I would not see my little girl again for nine weeks.</p>
<p>I had landed in the hall of mirrors commonly known as the juvenile justice system, and its machinations were limited only by the time and energy of a man possessed, a man running on sheer rage. Only with me, it would never stop with juvenile court. In fact—and I’m thankful I did not know this in 2000—it <em>would never stop at all.</em> When Nate said he would avail himself of every legal procedure available, and appeal every negative decision all the way up, he was making the only promises to me that he’s ever kept.</p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1079">Discuss this post on the NLQ forum!</a></em></p>
<p><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/nlqstories/tess-willoughby/">Read all posts by Tess Willoughby!</a></strong></p>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>Tea Party Family Values and the World&#8217;s Greatest Freak Show</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/08/29/tea-party-family-values-and-the-worlds-greatest-freak-show/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/08/29/tea-party-family-values-and-the-worlds-greatest-freak-show/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=12439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<h3>On fundamentalist counterculture &#38; juvenile black market adoption fantasies ...</h3>
<em><strong><span style="color: #008000;">by Vyckie Garrison @ <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com">No Longer Quivering</a></span></strong></em>

Do you remember when it first dawned on you that your relatives are all a bunch of crackpots and weirdos?  Seems like I was around 8 or 9 — my mother worked all night in the casinos and slept most of the day, leaving me alone to protect my naïve older sister from the depraved advances of Mom's alcoholic boyfriends and worry about my big brother's drug addiction. I couldn't count on my grandparents to help — they were too preoccupied with their own divorce, dating, and remarriage dramas.

"Holy sugar," I thought to myself, "these people are seriously messed up!"

That's about the time the fantasies began.  My home, I imagined, was a three-ring circus — and my relatives were the freaks and the clowns.  In my daydreams, I was not really one of them.  No — surely, I was of aristocratic origin.  My REAL family were royalty in a faraway Kingdom and I was born a beloved Princess in a fancy castle with many servants and my own Fairy Godmother.  Somehow, I'd been separated from my blood kin as an infant — I was captured by gypsies and sold in a black market adoption — that's how I ended up being raised by this group of crazies!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

<a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/08/29/tea-party-family-values-and-the-worlds-greatest-freak-show/gil-kelly-bates-family/" rel="attachment wp-att-12440"><img class="size-full wp-image-12440 alignleft" title="Gil &#38; Kelly Bates Family" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Gil-Kelly-Bates-Family.png" alt="" width="494" height="139" /></a>
<p style="text-align: left;">ABC's Primetime Nightline recently aired <a href="http://abcnews.go.com/US/evangelical-bates-family-20-children/story?id=12648595">a segment featuring the Gil &#38; Kelly Bates family</a> — a conservative, Evangelical mega-family of twenty.  The Bates, who are close friends of JimBob &#38; Michelle Duggar of TLC's "19 and Counting" fame, hold to the extreme fundamentalist ideals of the growing "<a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/what-is-quiverfull/">Quiverfull</a> movement."</p>
During the one-hour special, Gil, Kelly, and their children explained the family's lifestyle which, to all modern appearances, represents a throw back to the imaginary 60's-style "Leave It to Beaver" family combined with strict, Victorian Era sexual mores and the atavistic gender roles of ancient goat-herders. The Bates eschew all forms of birth control and adhere to the marriage model of the biblical Patriarchs — with Gil as family leader and Kelly as submissive "help meet."  Kelly and the girls adorn themselves in modest, hand-sewn dresses, while Gil and his clean-cut sons teach bible study and participate in local Tea Party politics.
<p style="text-align: left;"><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/08/29/tea-party-family-values-and-the-worlds-greatest-freak-show/bates-family/" rel="attachment wp-att-12476"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-12476" title="Bates Family" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Bates-Family.png" alt="" width="529" height="417" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Aren't they lovely?  Don'tcha wanna be just like them?</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">I sure did!  I left home at 15 and embarked on a quest to recreate my long-lost perfect, happy family — my REAL courtly family, where I truly belonged.  After a false start involving marriage at 16, a baby at 19, and divorce after seven years of abuse rivaling the most astonishing freak show acts Mom's circus family had ever performed — I remarried, found a "bible-believing" church, and worked hard within the Quiverfull counterculture to implement the best of the best biblical family values into our home life.  I had six more children. I homebirthed, homeschooled, and home-churched. I submitted to my husband and joyfully sacrificed my time, energy and talents to build him up and help him to succeed.  I published a "pro-life, pro-family" Christian family newspaper to inform and encourage other Christians to defend "Traditional Family Values."</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">In 2003, we were honored as Family of the Year at the Nebraska Family Council's "Salt &#38; Light" awards. I'd finally made it! I had built my own Magic Kingdom where my husband reigned as King and I was his Queen, the children were our loyal subjects and we could all live happily ever after ...</p>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<h3>On fundamentalist counterculture &amp; juvenile black market adoption fantasies &#8230;</h3>
<p><em><strong><span style="color: #008000;">by Vyckie Garrison @ <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com">No Longer Quivering</a></span></strong></em></p>
<p>Do you remember when it first dawned on you that your relatives are all a bunch of crackpots and weirdos?  Seems like I was around 8 or 9 — my mother worked all night in the casinos and slept most of the day, leaving me alone to protect my naïve older sister from the depraved advances of Mom&#8217;s alcoholic boyfriends and worry about my big brother&#8217;s drug addiction. I couldn&#8217;t count on my grandparents to help — they were too preoccupied with their own divorce, dating, and remarriage dramas.</p>
<p>&#8220;Holy sugar,&#8221; I thought to myself, &#8220;these people are seriously messed up!&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s about the time the fantasies began.  My home, I imagined, was a three-ring circus — and my relatives were the freaks and the clowns.  In my daydreams, I was not really one of them.  No — surely, I was of aristocratic origin.  My REAL family were royalty in a faraway Kingdom and I was born a beloved Princess in a fancy castle with many servants and my own Fairy Godmother.  Somehow, I&#8217;d been separated from my blood kin as an infant — I was captured by gypsies and sold in a black market adoption — that&#8217;s how I ended up being raised by this group of crazies!</p>
<p>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</p>
<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/08/29/tea-party-family-values-and-the-worlds-greatest-freak-show/gil-kelly-bates-family/" rel="attachment wp-att-12440"><img class="size-full wp-image-12440 alignleft" title="Gil &amp; Kelly Bates Family" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Gil-Kelly-Bates-Family.png" alt="" width="494" height="139" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: left;">ABC&#8217;s Primetime Nightline recently aired <a href="http://abcnews.go.com/US/evangelical-bates-family-20-children/story?id=12648595">a segment featuring the Gil &amp; Kelly Bates family</a> — a conservative, Evangelical mega-family of twenty.  The Bates, who are close friends of JimBob &amp; Michelle Duggar of TLC&#8217;s &#8220;19 and Counting&#8221; fame, hold to the extreme fundamentalist ideals of the growing &#8220;<a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/what-is-quiverfull/">Quiverfull</a> movement.&#8221;</p>
<p>During the one-hour special, Gil, Kelly, and their children explained the family&#8217;s lifestyle which, to all modern appearances, represents a throw back to the imaginary 60&#8242;s-style &#8220;Leave It to Beaver&#8221; family combined with strict, Victorian Era sexual mores and the atavistic gender roles of ancient goat-herders. The Bates eschew all forms of birth control and adhere to the marriage model of the biblical Patriarchs — with Gil as family leader and Kelly as submissive &#8220;help meet.&#8221;  Kelly and the girls adorn themselves in modest, hand-sewn dresses, while Gil and his clean-cut sons teach bible study and participate in local Tea Party politics.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/08/29/tea-party-family-values-and-the-worlds-greatest-freak-show/bates-family/" rel="attachment wp-att-12476"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-12476" title="Bates Family" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Bates-Family.png" alt="" width="529" height="417" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Aren&#8217;t they lovely?  Don&#8217;tcha wanna be just like them?</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">I sure did!  I left home at 15 and embarked on a quest to recreate my long-lost perfect, happy family — my REAL courtly family, where I truly belonged.  After a false start involving marriage at 16, a baby at 19, and divorce after seven years of abuse rivaling the most astonishing freak show acts Mom&#8217;s circus family had ever performed — I remarried, found a &#8220;bible-believing&#8221; church, and worked hard within the Quiverfull counterculture to implement the best of the best biblical family values into our home life.  I had six more children. I homebirthed, homeschooled, and home-churched. I submitted to my husband and joyfully sacrificed my time, energy and talents to build him up and help him to succeed.  I published a &#8220;pro-life, pro-family&#8221; Christian family newspaper to inform and encourage other Christians to defend &#8220;Traditional Family Values.&#8221;</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">In 2003, we were honored as Family of the Year at the Nebraska Family Council&#8217;s &#8220;Salt &amp; Light&#8221; awards. I&#8217;d finally made it! I had built my own Magic Kingdom where my husband reigned as King and I was his Queen, the children were our loyal subjects and we could all live happily ever after &#8230;</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Like the Bates family, we were the perfect picture of the &#8220;biblical family values&#8221; fantasy — an idealistic vision of big, happy families: devoted husband and wife surrounded by a passel of respectful, obedient children — we were all sweetness and smiles.  It is this mesmerizing dream world which energizes and motivates Tea Party Republicans like Rick Perry and Michele Bachmann to work tirelessly to implement the &#8220;pro-family&#8221; theocratic agenda into every aspect of American society: not only in politics, but religion, family, media, education, business and entertainment.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Fundamentalist Christians are convinced that contemporary American society is the World&#8217;s Most Spectacular Display of hideously mutated, diseased and anomalous freaks.  &#8221;Step right up folks!&#8221; the preacher yells, &#8220;and witness a grotesque parade of ho-mo-sex-uals, lesbians, Wiccans, radical feminists, godless liberals, secular humanists, and &#8230;&#8221; (congregation gasps!) &#8220;Muslim extremists!!&#8221;</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Simultaneously fascinated and horrified, respectable religious parents scramble to shield their innocent children&#8217;s eyes and ears from the depravity and corruption of &#8220;The World.&#8221;  They homeschool and form special Chastity and Creation Science clubs designed to insulate and isolate their vulnerable young from the miscreants and most depraved elements of popular culture.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/08/29/tea-party-family-values-and-the-worlds-greatest-freak-show/circustent1/" rel="attachment wp-att-12483"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-12483" title="CircusTent1" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/CircusTent1.jpg" alt="" width="399" height="275" /></a></p>
<p style="text-align: left;">It&#8217;s completely understandable and normal for preteens to create imaginary worlds — their own private, safe hideout where they can dream of nobility, of rising above and doing so much better than the clowns running the Big Top&#8217;s Museum of Mutantstrosities.  The grown-ups watch in silent, knowing amusement as kids disavow their relatives as &#8220;psychos&#8221; and &#8220;bozos.&#8221;</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">But when otherwise responsible, Christian adults in recent years set out on a mission to create a radically distinct way of life based on &#8220;biblical family values,&#8221; the resultant countercultural movement known as &#8220;Quiverfull&#8221; has become an <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/nlqstories/">all-too-real Hall of Mirrors horror show</a>.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">In my own life, perpetual pregnancies destroyed my health, and my indiscriminate acquiescence to my husband&#8217;s every whim transformed him from a loving father into a tantrum-throwing tyrant. Burnout and disillusionment led to abuse, neglect, family disintegration and a particularly nasty divorce.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">When the dust settled, I took a good look at myself in the mirror.  I could no longer deny the strong family resemblance — I saw my mother in my own face staring back at me.  After all those years of fighting and denial, I had to finally accept the fact that I really am one of them — I belong to these crazy people.  I, too, am a conspicuous oddity — a bizarre spectacle and an embarrassment to my own noble children.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Funny thing is &#8230; these days, I don&#8217;t mind so much being associated with my misfit clan of circus freaks.  Life experience has given me perspective and a deep appreciation for the inevitable realities and desperate circumstances which deformed and mutated Mom and the rest of us into shocking and extraordinary creatures worthy of society&#8217;s disquietude and awe.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Black market adoption fantasies and youthful idealism are important wayposts on the journey to adulthood.  Rebellion against blatant injustice, hypocrisy, moral compromise and the myriad of other common grown-up failure is a healthy manifestation of a kid&#8217;s personal power and strong moral agency.  Arrogant and annoying, yes — but in moments of truth we have to admit, the kid&#8217;s got a point.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Society sucks.  Bigotry, racism, inequity, corruption, greed, depravity, malevolence, and all manner of evil abound. Let&#8217;s just face the fact that in many ways, the contemporary American social and political scene has devolved to become the World&#8217;s Greatest Freak Show.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">No wonder Tea Party Patriot families like the Bates and the Duggars escape into their own personal fantasyland.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Ironically, with maturity comes humility — along with a profound sense of connection and belonging to that wacky bunch of buffoons who share our DNA.  We see our people with new eyes.  Sure, Grandma&#8217;s got a beard and Uncle Stan is a charlatan — Aunt Betty&#8217;s such a lunatic, she may as well have two heads.  But in the end, they&#8217;re all we&#8217;ve got.  That perfect, royal family whom we imagined searched frantically for us for years and never gave up hope that one day we would return to our true home?  They&#8217;re not real.  Cousin Roger is real — never mind that he doesn&#8217;t have a lick of sense and the only thing he&#8217;s good for is shoveling elephant shit — he&#8217;s the one who truly understands you, knows all about you, and loves you anyway.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">Tea Party family values are the fundamentalists&#8217; desperate attempt to deny their own imperfections, vulnerability, and their inescapable mortality.  Sure it hurts that they look down on us regular folk — those of us who make no pretense of actually having our acts together — they avoid being seen out in public with us, they disown us, and they shrink away in fear of catching our cooties.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">But take heart — perhaps they&#8217;ll grow up.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">I did.  Not saying I don&#8217;t still sometimes get all starry-eyed and visionary over the possibility of influencing our society for the better — I&#8217;ve got a bit of spunk left in me and I&#8217;m doing what I can to <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com">stick it to The Man</a>.  But I no longer think of myself as qualitatively different or &#8220;other&#8221; than all the rest of my fellow human beings — my family.  My freakish, crazy, wonderfully imperfect people.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;">I don&#8217;t believe in God anymore, but I still have faith.  I have hope and I trust that collectively, we&#8217;re all gonna make it — we are learning from our mistakes and growing more compassionate.  Our shared experiences make us wiser and I have confidence that better times are just ahead.</p>
<p style="text-align: left;"><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=1074">Discuss this post on the NLQ forum! </a></em> Comments are also open below.</p>
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<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>My Courtship Story ~ Part 8: Courtship Is Not The Answer</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/06/26/my-courtship-story-part-8-courtship-is-not-the-answer/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/06/26/my-courtship-story-part-8-courtship-is-not-the-answer/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jun 2011 13:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[A Woman's Choice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Boundaries]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Boy Meets Girl by Joshua Harris]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Courtship / Betrothal]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Emotional Purity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Enmeshment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[First Kiss at the Altar]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gender Equality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[I Kissed Dating Goodbye by Josh Harris]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Isolation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Issues]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[My Courtship Story]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[NLQ Stories]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Personal Autonomy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Purity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Quiverfull Discernment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Quiverfull Topics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Stay At Home Daughters (SAHDs)]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[above rubies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Boy Meets Girl by Josh Harris]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[child abuse]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[coercive religious groups]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[courtship]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Eric and Leslie Ludy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fundamentalism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gender equality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[home church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[homeschool]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[I Kissed Dating Goodbye Josh Harris]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[modest dress]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[patriarchy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[quiverfull]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[quiverfull daughters]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[SAHDs]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sheltering children]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[spiritual abuse]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Why Wait?]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=11763</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<strong><em><a rel="attachment wp-att-11766" href="http://nolongerquivering.com/?attachment_id=11766"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-11766" title="Permission to Live Courtship Story" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Permission-to-Live-Courtship-Story2.jpg" alt="" width="275" height="183" /></a>by Young Mom @ <a href="http://ayoungmomsmusings.blogspot.com/">Permission to Live</a></em></strong>

Looking back, I like many things about our story. I love that we were very honest about our needs and desires as we understood them at the time. I can imagine it would be more difficult to fall in love with someone and then find out afterwards they don’t want children and you do. I can see the benefits of being straightforward and asking the tough questions right away.

On the other hand, there were things that we could not talk about as well. Religious questions weren’t really that relevant, because we were so enmeshed in our families, we hardly had any beliefs that were truly ours, they were all dictated by our families. There are other tough issues that cannot come up when you have intense levels of parental control. Whatever is not safe to talk about in your family of origin, does not feel safe to bring up in the new relationship either.

I think that seeing our relationship as marriage focused was healthy. We weren’t dating just to date, we were discovering each other and searching each other to see if we could see ourselves together. (However I do feel that the marriage focus was taken to an extreme.) I also think that waiting to get involved in relationships until being old enough to start considering marriage makes sense.

I think that spending time together as families is a great idea. You have the opportunity to observe the persons interactions with their own family members and as well as yours. It helps you to learn how to interact with other people as a couple.

Respect for our bodies and sexuality was a good thing. I think it is healthy to have good boundaries in a relationship. Good communication about expectations and mutual respect for each other is pivotal.

<em>The problem is, all of those things could have been implemented by my husband and I as adults in our own relationship. We could have (probably would have) been serious about marriage, boundaries and family relationships and involvement, without <a href="http://billgothard.com/teaching/courtship">the parental control</a> that <a href="http://www.momof9splace.com/court3.html">the idea of Courtship is founded on</a>.</em>
<div>***************************</div>
Actually I can’t think of a single benefit from the parental control and pressure we had throughout our relationship. Even after we were married, it took several years for us to truly “leave and cleave”. We had never been allowed to be our own persons, and old habits died very hard. We would consult our parents and make decisions (<em>trivial or important</em>) based on what they told us. Eventually we progressed to where we would make our own decisions and fret about how to tell our parents what we had decided. <span style="text-decoration: underline;">It took four years to get to the point that we made decisions and didn’t bother to tell them at all!</span> We were both nearly twenty years old when we started our Courtship, and every decision was taken out of our hands as though we were fourteen year olds. I can only be grateful that my parents were not as extreme as some in the same mindset, such as <a href="http://razingruth.blogspot.com/">this girl</a> who was betrothed against her will and ran away from home to escape. Read her story in this order. <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/09/08/the-49-character-qualities-of-ruth-17-the-beggining-of-the-relationship-that-ended-it-all/">ONE</a>, <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/09/09/the-49-character-qualities-of-ruth-18-relationship/">TWO</a>, <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/09/10/the-49-character-qualities-of-ruth-19-you-are-16-going-on-17/">THREE</a>, and <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/09/13/the-49-character-qualities-of-ruth-20-betrothed/">FOUR</a>.)

My parents had a long set of rules we were expected to keep during our courtship. Looking back, it strikes me as pretty creepy. My parents were obsessed with controlling a fully grown child’s sex life. I was expected to ask them permission to do anything, and abide by their decision. It was none of their business what my boyfriend/fiancé and I were doing or not doing. The job of a parent entails teaching their children to respect their bodies and even passing on their religious beliefs if they wish too, NOT being the sexual purity police in another adult’s relationship.

In the end, <em>every boundary <strong>I</strong> had wanted</em>, stayed in place.

My fiancé and I respected the boundaries that each of us had set in place through evaluating our own values and convictions at the time. My parents rules simply did not stick. I was on my way out of their house and their control, and I had no incentive to follow their dictations any longer. <em>(Other than attempting to keep them happy until the wedding day so that we could get married without having to elope.)</em> I had broken out of the mind control enough to realize I would rather get married to my fiancé than live at home, and we did everything in our power to get that to happen smoothly. <a href="http://thecommandmentsofmen.blogspot.com/">Other couples were not so lucky</a>. 
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/06/19/my-courtship-story-part-1-listen-for-the-singing/permission-to-live-courtship-story-3/" rel="attachment wp-att-11766"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-11766" title="Permission to Live Courtship Story" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Permission-to-Live-Courtship-Story2.jpg" alt="" width="275" height="183" /></a>by Young Mom @ <a href="http://ayoungmomsmusings.blogspot.com/">Permission to Live</a></em></strong></p>
<p>Looking back, I like many things about our story. I love that we were very honest about our needs and desires as we understood them at the time. I can imagine it would be more difficult to fall in love with someone and then find out afterwards they don’t want children and you do. I can see the benefits of being straightforward and asking the tough questions right away.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there were things that we could not talk about as well. Religious questions weren’t really that relevant, because we were so enmeshed in our families, we hardly had any beliefs that were truly ours, they were all dictated by our families. There are other tough issues that cannot come up when you have intense levels of parental control. Whatever is not safe to talk about in your family of origin, does not feel safe to bring up in the new relationship either.</p>
<p>I think that seeing our relationship as marriage focused was healthy. We weren’t dating just to date, we were discovering each other and searching each other to see if we could see ourselves together. (However I do feel that the marriage focus was taken to an extreme.) I also think that waiting to get involved in relationships until being old enough to start considering marriage makes sense.</p>
<p>I think that spending time together as families is a great idea. You have the opportunity to observe the persons interactions with their own family members and as well as yours. It helps you to learn how to interact with other people as a couple.</p>
<p>Respect for our bodies and sexuality was a good thing. I think it is healthy to have good boundaries in a relationship. Good communication about expectations and mutual respect for each other is pivotal.</p>
<p><em>The problem is, all of those things could have been implemented by my husband and I as adults in our own relationship. We could have (probably would have) been serious about marriage, boundaries and family relationships and involvement, without <a href="http://billgothard.com/teaching/courtship">the parental control</a> that <a href="http://www.momof9splace.com/court3.html">the idea of Courtship is founded on</a>.</em></p>
<div>***************************</div>
<p>Actually I can’t think of a single benefit from the parental control and pressure we had throughout our relationship. Even after we were married, it took several years for us to truly “leave and cleave”. We had never been allowed to be our own persons, and old habits died very hard. We would consult our parents and make decisions (<em>trivial or important</em>) based on what they told us. Eventually we progressed to where we would make our own decisions and fret about how to tell our parents what we had decided. <span style="text-decoration: underline;">It took four years to get to the point that we made decisions and didn’t bother to tell them at all!</span> We were both nearly twenty years old when we started our Courtship, and every decision was taken out of our hands as though we were fourteen year olds. I can only be grateful that my parents were not as extreme as some in the same mindset, such as <a href="http://razingruth.blogspot.com/">this girl</a> who was betrothed against her will and ran away from home to escape. Read her story in this order. <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/09/08/the-49-character-qualities-of-ruth-17-the-beggining-of-the-relationship-that-ended-it-all/">ONE</a>, <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/09/09/the-49-character-qualities-of-ruth-18-relationship/">TWO</a>, <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/09/10/the-49-character-qualities-of-ruth-19-you-are-16-going-on-17/">THREE</a>, and <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2010/09/13/the-49-character-qualities-of-ruth-20-betrothed/">FOUR</a>.)</p>
<p>My parents had a long set of rules we were expected to keep during our courtship. Looking back, it strikes me as pretty creepy. My parents were obsessed with controlling a fully grown child’s sex life. I was expected to ask them permission to do anything, and abide by their decision. It was none of their business what my boyfriend/fiancé and I were doing or not doing. The job of a parent entails teaching their children to respect their bodies and even passing on their religious beliefs if they wish too, NOT being the sexual purity police in another adult’s relationship.</p>
<p>In the end, <em>every boundary <strong>I</strong> had wanted</em>, stayed in place.</p>
<p>My fiancé and I respected the boundaries that each of us had set in place through evaluating our own values and convictions at the time. My parents rules simply did not stick. I was on my way out of their house and their control, and I had no incentive to follow their dictations any longer. <em>(Other than attempting to keep them happy until the wedding day so that we could get married without having to elope.)</em> I had broken out of the mind control enough to realize I would rather get married to my fiancé than live at home, and we did everything in our power to get that to happen smoothly. <a href="http://thecommandmentsofmen.blogspot.com/">Other couples were not so lucky</a>.</p>
<div>***************************************</div>
<p>There was so much emphasis on avoiding sin, and a major burden to get married quickly to “stay pure”. If you stayed in a relationship for a long period of time, it was assumed that you would fall into temptation and end up sleeping together before marriage, and then your marriage would be doomed to fail, or even worse you could end up not getting married to that person and then you would have sexual baggage and be considered “damaged goods”. If you did slip up and have sex before marriage, you pretty much had to get married if you wanted to “make the sin right”. I would rather have my children take as much time as they need to be sure of their choice, <em>(even if that means they fall into temptation)</em> than to rush things and get married prematurely to avoid premarital sex. Having sex outside of marriage may cause damage, but getting married to a person you do not love, or turns out to be abusive is a <em>far more permanent</em> mistake that is very difficult to remedy.</p>
<p>Aside from rushing to get married in the interest of “staying pure”, there was also major pressure for the courtship to be &#8220;successful”. Any time spent with the opposite sex was seen as risky. I was not allowed to hang out with a group of young people without my parents present. Group dates were off limits, any sort of one-on-one dating was practically as bad as having sex. Everyone “knew” that the minute 2 young people were left to their own devices <em>(somehow regardless of how well they knew each other)</em> they would be engaging in inappropriate sexual activity. The risk of flirting, touching, or kissing someone who was not going to end up being your spouse was too high to allow young people to be around each other.</p>
<p>Pretty much any interaction between two people of the opposite sex was supposed to be reserved for marriage. The whole idea is pretty dysfunctional, because in the real world you really have to be able to interact with either sex on a regular basis. This type of gender separation leads to social disability as well as sexual issues in marriage. To this day I am instinctively suspicious of men and still find myself occasionally falling into old habits like avoiding eye contact with males, or obsessing over my neckline or how my hips are moving as I walk. It can take women (and me) a long time to get over the sexual messages too. It took several years for both my husband and I to loosen up and really communicate in the bedroom, body image and shame as well as messages about the roles each spouse is supposed to play in a “Christian” marriage, are terrible barriers to true intimacy and partnership. (Read Darcy&#8217;s excellent series on &#8220;How the Teachings of Emotional Purity and Courtship Damage Healthy Relationships&#8221;, Part <a href="http://darcysheartstirrings.blogspot.com/2011/01/how-teachings-of-emotional-purity-and.html">ONE</a>, <a href="http://darcysheartstirrings.blogspot.com/2011/01/emotional-purity-and-courtship-take-2.html">TWO</a>, and <a href="http://darcysheartstirrings.blogspot.com/2011/01/emotional-purity-and-courtship.html">THREE</a>.)</p>
<p>**********************************</p>
<p>Parents want to protect their children from harm. Many parents are drawn to ideas like Courtship because they want to give their children the best, and they remember their own mistakes. The problem is, there is no way to control the choices of a grown child. Yes, you can teach them to respect themselves and others, you can explain your beliefs about marriage and sex, you can encourage them to wait on relationships until they are old enough to consider marriage. But in the end, their actions are up to them. I believe that parental <strong>control</strong> of adult children always goes badly. There is no way a parent can completely know the desires and priorities of their adult child. Will your child make less than wise choices over their lifetime? Yes. As a child and as an adult they will probably make choices you don’t agree with. That is not your fault. <a href="http://freetoreallythink.blogspot.com/2011/04/working-myself-out-of-job.html">It is not your responsibility to keep your child from living.</a></p>
<p>As for my husband and I? It’s kind of like we were betrothed in the old world. Even though we love each other and consider ourselves blessed and fortunate, now that we have immigrated into the new world we wouldn’t want to put our kids through that process. We trust that our children will be ready to make their own decisions <em>as</em> <em>adults</em> when it comes to picking a mate. When I was talking to a counsellor recently, she had only heard a fraction of my story and she was amazed that I was still married and claimed to love my husband. My husband and I somehow fell in love very quickly, and we clung to each other through all of the craziness and change of our lives together. The fact that we were both around the same age, have much of the same background, and both became disillusioned with our pasts at around the same time, and were not afraid to talk about the issues and get help, have played a large part in the “success” of our marriage so far, and our marriage is still a work in progress. The reasons my husband and I are still together, are largely grounded in our own values and priorities. They have nothing to do with how our marriage was arranged and controlled by our parents.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/519513/posts">Courtship is not the answer.</a></p>
<p>Even a perfectly planned, controlled and executed courtship will not protect your child from marriage conflict, <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2011/03/27/when-promises-become-dreams-doing-marriage-god%e2%80%99s-way/">or even a bad marriage</a>.</p>
<div>
<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=824"><em>Discuss this post on the NLQ forum!</em></a>  NOTE: Comments are also open below.</p>
<p>[Note: The "My Courtship Story" series is being crossposted from the blog: <a href="http://ayoungmomsmusings.blogspot.com/">Permission to Live: Musings of a Young Mom</a>.]</p>
<h3><strong><a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/nlqstories/young-mom/">Read all posts by Young Mom!</a></strong></h3>
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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