Tag: jonathan lindvall

Emotional Incest Part 4: The Pain

April 22, 2012

by Libby Anne

In Part 1 I discussed the definition of emotional incest, in Part 2 I discussed its relationship with Christian Patriarchy, and in Part 3 I pointed out just how easy it is to slip into the harmful emotionally incestuous dynamics (the “daddy’s girl” effect). I am now going to turn to the problems and pain emotional incest causes.

But first, I want to note that emotional incest can happen in any family (not just one involved in Christian Patriarchy) and that it can happen with sons as well as with daughters. In focusing as I have on daughters, and also on Christian Patriarchy, I have of necessity left a lot out.

Emotional incest causes a multitude of problems, but I’m only going to address the three I see as most significant: first, it creates a relationship triangle between the parents and the child; second, it makes the child responsible for the parent’s well-being; and third, getting out of this situation can have the same effects as a really, really nasty breakup.

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Emotional Incest: The Bottom Line

April 21, 2012

by Sierra

[Editors' note: At the time of writing, Libby Anne and Sierra were unaware of the controversy surrounding Hugo Schwyzer. The discussion of his critique of emotional incest is not an endorsement of Schwyzer by NLQ.]

My last two posts, and indeed all my thinking on the subject has led me to some conclusions about the ways that Christian Patriarchy and purity culture enable and even celebrate emotional incest. The following are the cliff notes:

Christian patriarchy turns marriage from a relationship to an institution, effectively reversing the historical trend from business partnerships and heir insurance to bonds between two free agents based on love. Evangelical culture says that marriage takes three: you, your spouse, and God. It also promotes self-denial and the sublimation of one’s own desires to those of Christ. Therefore, any two evangelical Christians should be able to marry each other and have a godly, fulfilling marriage, given enough work and prayer. Purity culture says that chemistry and personality don’t matter. What matters is following the Word of God. Husbands and wives should love each other because it’s commanded in God’s Word to do so; loving his wife is a husband’s “first ministry.” Similarly, a wife “ministers” to her husband by submission and love. The core of marriage in Christian patriarchy is the commitment to be loyal to God and to the marriage, not attachment to the person of the spouse. This is why evangelical courtships are more focused on purity than the prospective partners getting to know each other personally; what matters is getting to the altar without regrets. The love in marriage flows from commitment rather than the other way around, mirroring the logic of arranged marriage.(Note: Most evangelical Christians do acknowledge the importance of an emotional bond between the bride and groom that develops before the wedding day. Most evangelical Christians do want their children to marry people whom they find attractive, companionable and fun. If you are one of these Christians, you’re not the one I’m critiquing. (Congratulations! You’re normal!) What I do find problematic is the branch of evangelical-fundamentalist Christianity led by people like Bill Gothard, Matthew Chapman (who famously didn’t ask his wife to marry him), Doug Wilson, Jonathan Lindvall, et al. who expect young people to marry with hardly any knowledge of each other, rigid parental oversight and laundry lists of abstract virtues rather than personality traits in mind.)

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“Taking Her Myself” A New Trend in Quiverfull Courtship/Betrothal

September 10, 2011

by Vyckie Garrison “Does God Hate Women?” author, Ophelia Benson recently shared a note which was posted on Reddit written by a young patriarch describing his “biblical marriage.”  As Bible-believing Baptists who hold to reformed theology, X and I believe that God is sovereign in choosing who will or will not believe in him, having chosen his people before the foundation of the world (see Ephesians 1), and that his selection is unbreakable and irresistible. If marriage is to mirror this principle, we believe that a woman has no right to select a husband for herself, but Full post …

“Husbands love your wives …” ~ the Peanut Butter in the Patriarchy trap!

August 20, 2010

My daughter, Berea, has mice in her new apartment ~ and this morning she asked on her Facebook status: WHAT DO MICE WANT?

Answer: Peanut Butter! :)

by Vyckie

I’ve lost track of how many times I have been told that the only reason wifely submission did not work out in my marriage was because I was married to a jerk.

Recently, “Karebear” commented: I hope that you two understand that the groups/husbands that you were with were not practicing a Godly lifestyle. The bible does call women to be submissive to their husbands but it also calls men to love their wives …. And, the bible defines love as, not self-seeking, protective, kind ext….

Another reader wrote:

Husbands are commanded to love their wives and this love of a husband is only of value if it is sacrificial, Christ is the example of sacrificial love (Servant King–NOT TYRANT).

Submission of a wife is only a beautiful gift if the context is respect as opposed to fear.

The impression I get (forgive me for speaking out of ignorance) is that your marriage was codependant and that your husband had a weakness for malignant narcissism/Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

So in other words ~ the failure was not in the teachings of Patriarchy ~ but in our practice of it ~ we were doing it wrong. These defenders of Patriarchy assume that I was submitting out of fear and they’re also convinced that Warren never sacrificed for me and the kids.

Let me state plainly that throughout our 18 year marriage ~ I never doubted for a minute that Warren loved me and the children more than himself and that he always put our welfare ahead of his own concerns.

Here’s the thing: Over the years, as we got more and more into the patriarchal mindset ~ our definition of what it means for a husband to “love” and to “sacrifice” morphed into some pretty twisted ideas!

The teachings we learned from leaders such as Jonathan Lindvall, Doug Phillips, etc. led us to believe that the husband loves and serves the Lord as “protector, provider, and priest” or sometimes stated, “prophet, priest, and king” of his family ~ all important aspects of his role as “head of the household.”

In every sermon, book, magazine article, radio interview, etc. which taught about a wife’s submission ~ there was *always* included the admonition to husbands that they “love their wives as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself up for her.” WE UNDERSTOOD THAT PART OF THE PLAN!!!

Truthfully~ “Husband’s love your wives” is the part that makes the whole Patriarchy deal seem so bloody attractive! What woman doesn’t want a husband and father for her children who willingly lays down his life and serves, protects, provides ~ a man who fulfills his leadership role with gentleness and competence?

That’s exactly what we all wanted.

Guardians of the Home

November 4, 2009

by Alyzza Martin She is like the merchants’ ships; she bringeth her food from afar. She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens. She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard. – Proverbs 31:14-16 Women around the world have historically been called upon to take care of domestic duties such as hauling water, preparing food, and disposing of waste. In areas where women are denied access to political power, “female concerns” like water security Full post …

Vyckie’s Tour de Crap: “The children do not get it at all …”

October 24, 2009

This letter which I wrote to Jonathan Lindvall via his “Bold Christian Living” email discussion list fits into the time period of the latest installment of my story.  This one is total crap ~ I was trying so desperately to figure a way to get Angel to accept and embrace the godly, quiverfull lifestyle which we’d chosen for our family ~ I think that my desperation is quite apparent in this rather pathetic letter: Dear Mr. Lindvall, Thank you so much for your ministry — you have been a great encouragement to my husband & Full post …

We didn’t want to be BALANCED

April 13, 2009

by Vyckie Me & my boys ~ at a homeschooling conference ~ soaking up new ideas about how to live a godly lifestyle that would be pleasing to the Lord. Many NLQ readers have expressed their observation that in any healthy belief system or chosen lifestyle, there needs to be “balance” ~ a quick glance through the comment section will yield plenty of observations that we’ve gone from “one extreme to the other.” Part of the reason I’m writing this blog is to hopefully help those who have never personally been steeped in the fundamentalist Full post …

Hey, Hazelle … about “that book…”

April 7, 2009

by Vyckie For her 13th birthday, I got Hazelle a ticket to Seattle ~ she’ll be leaving tomorrow to spend Spring Break with Laura. When Laura lived here with us, she and Hazelle became pretty good friends This morning, about 5 minutes before leaving for school, Hazelle (who is a 6th grader) asked me to write a response to the letter/book report she wrote for me as a class assignment. I scribbled out a letter and she’s off to school ~ here’s what I wrote: Dear Hazelle, Thank you for the letter telling me about Full post …