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	<title>NO LONGER QIVERING &#187; reproductive choice</title>
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	<description>There Is No &#039;You&#039; In Quivering ...</description>
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		<title>Why Quiverfull Moms Do Not and Cannot Love Their Bodies</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/12/22/why-quiverfull-moms-do-not-and-cannot-love-their-bodies/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/12/22/why-quiverfull-moms-do-not-and-cannot-love-their-bodies/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Tapati's Body Image Workshop]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[There Is No "You" in Qivering]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[children are a blessing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fundamentalism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[patriarchy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[quiverfull]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[reproductive choice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[woman's submission]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=3329</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[by Vyckie I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. (Romans 12:1) For the past week and a half, NLQ has been presenting the excellent material in Tapati&#8217;s Body Image Workshop.  As I&#8217;ve read through the <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/12/22/why-quiverfull-moms-do-not-and-cannot-love-their-bodies/"><b>Full post ...</b></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong><em><span style="color: #008000;">by Vyckie</span></em></strong></p>
<p><em>I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, <strong>that ye present your bodies</strong> a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.</em> (Romans 12:1)</p>
<p><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-3330" title="nlq_vyckie_4b" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/nlq_vyckie_4b-300x226.jpg" alt="nlq_vyckie_4b" width="300" height="226" /></p>
<p>For the past week and a half, NLQ has been presenting the excellent material in<a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/category/tapatis-body-image-workshop/"> Tapati&#8217;s Body Image Workshop</a>.  As I&#8217;ve read through the posts and all the related comments on the NLQ forum, I&#8217;ve been thinking about how the Body Image issue is incredibly relevant to <em>No Longer Quivering</em> and the stories here of women who&#8217;ve left the Quiverfull philosophy and lifestyle.</p>
<p>In theory, virtuous Quivefull moms do not have body image issues.  I say this because, of course, there is no &#8220;you&#8221; in qivering ~ in other words, QF women are taught not to think about ourselves, our bodies, our issues.</p>
<p><strong><em><span style="color: #008000;"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-3331" title="NancyCampbell&amp;usn's" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/NancyCampbellusns-300x197.jpg" alt="NancyCampbell&amp;usn's" width="300" height="197" /></span></em></strong></p>
<p>About 10 years ago, I attended an <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/09/29/vyckies-story-part-24-thou-hast-been-faithful/">Above Rubies retreat</a> in California taught by Nancy Campbell.  The theme verse for the weekend was Romans 12:1, which Nancy had us memorize ~ with special emphasis on &#8221;that ye present <em>your bodies</em>.&#8221; </p>
<p>While acknowledging that moms of many face some special challenges physically, Nancy encouraged us not to regard our bodies as our own personal property:  our bodies belong to Jesus ~ He paid a very dear price to redeem us from eternal destruction ~ and in so doing, the Lord set an example of the sort of self-sacrificial love which we were to have towards God, our dear husbands, and our precious children: a Christ-like &#8221;in the flesh&#8221; sort of self-sacrificial love.</p>
<p>Presenting our bodies as a living sacrifice was our &#8220;reasonable service.&#8221;  In giving over our reproductive lives to His service, we could not claim to be extraordinary Christians ~ no, we were only doing our duty ~ our reasonable service. </p>
<p>So that&#8217;s the theory.<span id="more-3329"></span></p>
<p>In practice, it&#8217;s a little more complicated because, try as we may (and QF moms do try harder perhaps than any other Christians) to take up our cross ~ to remain on the cross and not shrink back from a life of self-sacrificial love ~ we cannot escape the fact that bearing all the pregnancies and deliveries which the Lord sends our way is extremely hard on our bodies. </p>
<p>No matter how faithfully the husbands carry out their part of the patriarchy deal ~ loving their wives as Christ loved the church ~ caring for her as he does his own body, no matter efficiently QF couples train their older daughters to serve Christ by serving their families ~ thereby working mother &#8221;out of a job,&#8221; no matter how carefully QF moms follow a healthy diet and supplementation program, the repeated wear and tear of half a dozen or more pregnancies does eventually take a heavy toll on the bodies of QF women.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the really shitty part which has been bugging me lately as I&#8217;ve been considering Tapati&#8217;s body image ideas:</p>
<p>It seems that QF women who&#8217;ve presented their bodies as living sacrifices to God ought to have an incredibly positive body image.  These women have lovingly served their Lord, their husbands, their children ~ the very Kingdom of Heaven ~ <strong>with their bodies</strong>: and they have the stretch marks, saggy breasts, flabby bellies, and c-section scars to prove it. </p>
<p>I mean, there&#8217;ve been songs written about the scars on Jesus&#8217; hands and feet ~ visible evidence of Christ&#8217;s love which He reportedly still bears even in His resurrected body.</p>
<p>At the very least, QF moms&#8217; bodies are worthy of respect and adoration on par with the Lord&#8217;s pierced hands.</p>
<p>So it really pains me when QF women disparage their grand-multipara bodies with comments similar to what Wendy Jeub expressed on the Secret Lives of Women, Born to Breed episode:</p>
<p><em>&#8220;Here my brother shows up for a surprise visit, and I look completely out of shape, and overweight.  And I did not like that at all.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>Okay ~ what the hell is going on in the mind of a woman who has given birth to 15 children and then feels embarrassed and miserable because she&#8217;s gained 50 pounds? </p>
<p>In some religions, they&#8217;d erect a statue of Wendy Jeub in all her plump naked glory and worship this hardy woman&#8217;s staggering fertility.</p>
<p>The thing is ~ QF women cannot really say, Yes ~ this is screwing up my body and is slowly killing me.  Such an admission would be very poor PR for the Quiverfull message that babies are a blessing ~ because along with the blessing of abundant children comes the implied (and often, frankly stated) consequent blessing of health and prosperity.  You trust the Lord in this area of your life ~ joyfully receiving all the children He chooses to bless you with ~ and then watch and see how faithful He is to supply adequate provision for your ever-growing family.  After all, &#8220;I have never seen a righteous man forsaken nor his children begging for bread.&#8221; </p>
<p>The idea is that if the Lord has deemed a couple worthy of His special blessing of children, He can also be counted on to ensure the health of the mother ~ He did say, &#8220;My yoke is easy, my burden is light.&#8221;  So ~ if a woman accepts the Quiverfull conviction, and subsequently suffers ill health, is that not a sign that her practice of Quiverfull is legalistic and works based?  She&#8217;s doing it in her own strength, obviously.</p>
<p>And so, QF women grin and &#8220;bear it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Quiverfull moms present their bodies, they sacrifice their bodies, they crucify their bodies, they buffet their bodies, &#8230; but they cannot love their bodies ~ in any sense of the word &#8220;love&#8221; that you care to use.</p>
<p>After ditching the Quiverful <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/08/22/twisted_love/">martyr-mentality</a> and leaving the lifestyle, I have thought quite a lot about the body which I&#8217;d surrendered to the Lord, but now have chosen to reclaim as my own.  This body of mine has been through 10 pregnancies and delivered 7 living beings ~ 5 of them via c-section.  So, yeah ~ it&#8217;s &#8220;out of shape&#8221; (actually, it is in shape ~ the shape of a prolific mother) and in pain and I feel old and decrepit. </p>
<p>BUT ~ considering everything ~ I have to admit that my body is pretty amazing.  I have a strong, powerful, resilient body ~ a survivor body which has served me admirably even though I (or rather the Lord, whose body it was) pushed it well beyond reasonable limits.</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-3339" title="woohoo" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/woohoo.bmp" alt="woohoo" width="450" height="306" /></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><em>Yes ~ this is me!</em></p>
<p>About a year after leaving, I did a boudoir photo shoot as a way of reclaiming my body for me.  I had gone from denying my body, to hating it ~ eventually, I learned to accept it (this was much easier once the chronic pain disappeared) ~ and now, I want to embrace my body and even love it for the way it has so faithfully carried me through my life when it so obviously could have given up on me years ago.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m so jealous of <a href="http://tapatim.multiply.com/photos/album/34#photo=1" target="_blank">Tapati&#8217;s wonderful nude image in which her big Gaia belly is the whole earth</a>.  I try to imagine my own belly ~ which has been repeatedly stretched out and then shriveled and now flabbly hangs over my too-tight, perpetually itchy cesarean scar ~ not as a humiliatingly ugly thing which disgusts me ~ but rather, I picture it as a cultivated field which, over the years, has been ploughed under, seeded, fertilized, and has produced abundant harvests which have enriched its owner (that&#8217;d be ME ~ sorry, God ~ too bad, Warren) sevenfold.</p>
<p><strong><em><span style="color: #008000;"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-3342" title="field" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/field-300x155.jpg" alt="field" width="300" height="155" /></span></em></strong></p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the image of my post-QF belly which I&#8217;m carrying in my head these days.  Thank you, body ~ for all you&#8217;ve been through with me ~ and for the wonderful children you&#8217;ve produced.  I honor you.</p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&amp;board=body&amp;thread=611" target="_blank">Discuss this post on the NLQ forums!</a></em></p>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>Quiverfull in a Nutshell</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/12/15/quiverfull-in-a-nutshell/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/12/15/quiverfull-in-a-nutshell/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Must Read! ~ NLQ Readers Choice ...]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nolongerquivering.com/?p=3296</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michelle says, Never enough babies! What the quiverfull movement doesn&#8217;t have is satisfaction. It casts itself as only looking for &#8220;blessing&#8221; but in many cases it seems to go far beyond that to reach the collectors&#8217; mentality which bespeaks more of greed, grabbing for every child you can, and if you don&#8217;t do that, you <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/12/15/quiverfull-in-a-nutshell/"><b>Full post ...</b></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-3289" title="greed" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/greed-300x213.jpg" alt="greed" width="300" height="213" /></p>
<p><em>Michelle says, Never enough babies!</em></p>
<p>What the quiverfull movement doesn&#8217;t have is satisfaction. It casts itself as only looking for &#8220;blessing&#8221; but in many cases it seems to go far beyond that to reach the collectors&#8217; mentality which bespeaks more of greed, grabbing for every child you can, and if you don&#8217;t do that, you fail spiritually. It&#8217;s an insidious teaching and my only regret in accepting my atheism is knowing that there will be no ultimate reckoning where those who promoted and gained from this teaching do not face what they have created and see it for what it really is. The quiverful movement claims to welcome every child, but it never allows you to be happy with just what you have already. Satiety and peace are foreign to it.</p>
<p>~ NLQ forum member, <a href="http://nolongerquivering.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&amp;user=jemand" target="_blank">Jemand</a></p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=qfnut" target="_blank">Discuss this post on the NLQ forums!</a></em><br />
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<p><strong>NLQ recommended reading:</strong></p>
<p>&#8216;<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>&#8216; by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>&#8216;<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>&#8216; by Kathryn Joyce</p>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>God gave them brains too</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/12/12/god-gave-them-brains-too/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/12/12/god-gave-them-brains-too/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
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		<description><![CDATA[Why Michelle Duggar might not be done yet by Vyckie The Internet is buzzing with news of the premature birth of Josie Brooklyn Duggar ~ Michelle&#8217;s 19th child, who was delivered via emergency c-section last Thursday at only 25 weeks gestation and weighing a mere 1 lb. 6 oz.  Kate Harding, at Salon.com pointedly asks the <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/12/12/god-gave-them-brains-too/"><b>Full post ...</b></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<h2>Why Michelle Duggar might not be done yet</h2>
<p><strong><em><span style="color: #008000;">by Vyckie<br />
</span></em></strong></p>
<p><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-3259" title="numbers" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/numbers-300x290.jpg" alt="numbers" width="300" height="290" /></p>
<p>The Internet is buzzing with news of the premature birth of Josie Brooklyn Duggar ~ Michelle&#8217;s 19th child, who was delivered via emergency c-section last Thursday at only 25 weeks gestation and weighing a mere 1 lb. 6 oz. </p>
<p>Kate Harding, at Salon.com pointedly asks the question of the hour: <a href="http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/feature/2009/12/11/nineteenth_duggar/index.html?source=newsletter" target="_blank">Baby No. 19 is born extremely premature; will Michelle&#8217;s god ever give the poor woman a break?</a>  Of interest to me, is a comment on Kate&#8217;s article: <em>God gave them brains too ~ So why don&#8217;t they use them instead of their reproductive organs? Trust in God but use your head, otherwise you are insulting God by behaving as if you have no choice in the matter</em>.</p>
<p>Yep ~ I heard a lot of those sort of comments too ~ especially after my youngest child was delivered via c-section due to partial uterine rupture.  This past week, I did an interview with Mike Munro for the Australian news program &#8220;<a href="http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunday-night/" target="_blank">Sunday Night</a>.&#8221;  One of the questions Mike asked me was, Why did you keep having babies when it was so dangerous for you?  Did the movement force you to keep having babies?</p>
<p>Well ~ no.  Not exactly.  I&#8217;m sure Mr. Munro would have liked a sound-bite response to his question, but I had to slow down and try to explain that it was actually kind of complicated.  Yes, God gave me a brain ~ and I was using it the entire time that I was living the Quiverfull life.  The thing is, I was so committed to the ideal of &#8220;trusting the Lord with our family planning&#8221; that I found ways to convince myself that pregnancy was not really so dangerous as the doctors were telling me.</p>
<p><span id="more-3258"></span></p>
<p>Here&#8217;s how I explained it in a letter to my uncle when he asked the question: <em>You have been extraordinarily brave in the face of real threats to your health and that of your newborns.  How great was your fear of dying that you would risk it?</em> </p>
<blockquote><p> <br />
I am actually rather fearless ~ much to the consternation of those who love me.  My mother has pleaded with me more than once not to get pregnant again ~ and poor Warren ~ he is so much more afraid for me than I am.<br />
 <br />
Anyone who has already been to Hell and has found some good there is unlikely to be terrified of unknown or difficult things. <br />
 <br />
And besides ~ mine is a calculated risk.  I know my health could be so much improved if only I didn&#8217;t subject myself to continual hardship ~ but I don&#8217;t believe that I&#8217;m risking my life.  During my last delivery, when my uterus split open and I might have died (but didn&#8217;t ~ I think that counts as something more than just good luck) ~ the surgeon, who has liability concerns and is financially motivated not to take any risk with my life, spent almost two hours carefully stitching me back together all neat and tidy.  Why didn&#8217;t he just give me a hysterectomy?  He could have done it in ten minutes and made some extra profit.  He&#8217;s been my doctor for nearly two decades and he knows how I believe about birth control ~ so he knew full well that if he left me my uterus there&#8217;s every possibility that I might put it to use again. I say, future pregnancies couldn&#8217;t be all that risky ~ or the doctor, a man in the position to know, would not have taken the risk. To me, this is not the same as blindly putting my trust in doctors and medicine ~ all factors considered, I do have confidence in the surgeon&#8217;s assessment of the risk to my life.<br />
 <br />
Sure, I could die ~ but we all could whether we insulate ourselves from the possibility or not.  </p></blockquote>
<p>A calculated risk. </p>
<p>And yes ~ I did get pregnant again after that partial uterine rupture ~ twice.  Both times I miscarried.  As I explained to Mike Munro during the interview, I really didn&#8217;t believe that I could die.  Why would the Lord take me when I had a husband who was blind and seven children who all depended on me?</p>
<p>To the Quiverfull brain ~ this makes perfectly good sense.</p>
<p>Michelle has 19 children who need her.  Surely, the Lord knows how many little ones are depending on her ~ surely, it&#8217;s His will that she live and continue to love and nurture all those beautiful children whom He has blessed her with.  That&#8217;s job security, huh?</p>
<p><em>“What is madness? To have erroneous perceptions and to reason correctly from them”~ Voltaire</em></p>
<p><em><a href="http://nolongerquivering.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&amp;board=duggars&amp;thread=593&amp;page=1" target="_blank">Discuss this post on the NLQ forums!</a></em></p>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>Vyckie&#8217;s Tour de Crap: Quiverfull and the Life of the Mother</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/11/19/vyckies-tour-de-crap-quiverfull-and-the-life-of-the-mother/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/11/19/vyckies-tour-de-crap-quiverfull-and-the-life-of-the-mother/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
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		<description><![CDATA[The recent &#8220;Born to Breed&#8221; episode of &#8220;Secret Lives of Women&#8221; has attracted quite a bit of attention from practicing Quiverfull women ~ and several QF/P blogs are discussing my story and NLQ.  I appreciate that quite a few of these blog commenters are giving thoughtful consideration to the message here.  But many others are insisting <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/11/19/vyckies-tour-de-crap-quiverfull-and-the-life-of-the-mother/"><b>Full post ...</b></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The recent &#8220;Born to Breed&#8221; episode of &#8220;Secret Lives of Women&#8221; has attracted quite a bit of attention from practicing Quiverfull women ~ and several QF/P blogs are discussing my story and NLQ.  I appreciate that quite a few of these blog commenters are giving thoughtful consideration to the message here. </p>
<p>But many others are insisting that my Quiverfull &#8220;conviction&#8221; was a burdensome form of legalism rather than a true calling from the Lord.  It is frustrating to read their comments as these women dismiss my Quiverfull experience as irrelevant by concluding that what we were doing in our family was not the same heartfelt, Spirit-led decision based on our sincere love for the Lord and our desire to be open to His wisdom and guidance in this very personal area of our reproductive lives as what they are currently doing in their own families.</p>
<p>So ~ feeling a bit (okay, maybe a lot) defensive, I went and dug up a piece of writing from my &#8220;quivering days.&#8221;  This one happens to fit in the timeline of where I&#8217;m at in my story ~ I wrote this shortly before I became pregnant with my 7th child, Wesley.  While this started out as a personal letter to a friend, I later modified it for publication in several QF periodicals including &#8220;Unless The Lord Magazine.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll follow this one with a bit of commentary at the end:</p>
<p><strong>Quiverfull and the Life of the Mother</strong></p>
<p><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-3213" title="5kids1" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/5kids1-217x300.jpg" alt="5kids1" width="217" height="300" /></p>
<p>A friend of mine (the local La Leche League leader) is under heavy conviction right now concerning the use of <span id="lw_1256614708_1" style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">natural family planning</span>.  I can understand her hesitancy to completely give this area over to the Lord as she and her husband are only 21 and already have two children. Recently, &#8220;Katherine&#8221; posted a question on QuiverFull Digest (an Internet discussion group for families who are trusting the Lord with their &#8220;family planning&#8221;)  which basically asked the question, &#8220;How far are we supposed to follow this &#8216;Quiverfull&#8217; conviction?  What if the life of the mother would be jeopardized by <span id="lw_1256614708_3" style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">pregnancy</span> &#8211; would it then be prudent to abstain during the woman&#8217;s fertile time?  If so, where do we draw the line between being &#8216;good stewards&#8217; and taking complete control over our reproduction?&#8221;</p>
<p>Dear Katherine,</p>
<p>I noticed your post on the QuiverFull Digest recently asking whether it&#8217;s acceptable to use birth control in a situation where the mother&#8217;s life is in danger.  I did not want to respond to the Digest &#8211; but, for what it&#8217;s worth &#8211; here&#8217;s my take on that situation:</p>
<p><span id="more-2571"></span></p>
<p>First of all, it&#8217;s great to know that you are thinking about this issue in depth &#8211; convictions that are lightly adopted are easily abandoned when they become inconvenient.  I had a couple of different thoughts concerning your question &#8211; and I hope it does not frustrate you too much that I don&#8217;t have any hard and fast answers!</p>
<p>One thing to consider carefully is our motives in dealing with the exceptional cases.  Whenever Warren or I establish a new rule at our house there are typically two responses from the children &#8211; I&#8217;ll use a hypothetical case as an example:  If I were to say, &#8220;No running in the house &#8211; period!&#8221; &#8211; I can imagine Angel, who has always been fairly compliant asking the question, &#8220;Is it okay for Lydia to run?&#8221;  I would easily recognize this &#8211; not as a challenge to my authority &#8211; but just the opposite &#8211; Angel would want to be sure that my new rule was fully complied with, so she would want to know if I expected the older children to start training the youngest not to run in the house.  On the other hand, I can imagine Berea asking me, &#8220;What if the house is on fire, then can we run?&#8221;  Then, the next time I caught her running in the house she would defend her action by claiming, &#8220;but it was an emergency &#8211; I have to tell you something really important!&#8221;  Berea tends to look for the exceptions in order to justify breaking the rule.</p>
<p>If I understand correctly, your concern is that if we can make a case for practicing birth control when the life of the mother is at risk, then where *do* we draw the line and on what basis?</p>
<p>I know you are well aware that often when a doctor tells a woman that future pregnancies might jeopardize her life &#8211; it is simply not true. It is rare that pregnancy is actually life threatening to the mother. In many cases, when a woman&#8217;s health is severely compromised, infertility goes along with the health condition (i.e. <span id="lw_1256614708_4">amenorrhea</span> due to extreme weight loss or gain, etc.) &#8211; this most likely is God&#8217;s way of protecting the woman from the risks of pregnancy during that time. But what about the cases when the woman&#8217;s reproductive system continues to function normally in spite of her other health conditions, or in the (very rare) case of a woman whose health is otherwise fine &#8211; it is only pregnancy which puts her at risk?</p>
<p>Many would argue that in those cases, a couple ought to trust God to supernaturally close the woman&#8217;s womb.  After all, she cannot get pregnant outside of the <span id="lw_1256614708_5">will of God</span> &#8211; and He knows whether a pregnancy will endanger her life, so He can be trusted to do what is best for the woman in her situation.  Abstaining during the woman&#8217;s <span id="lw_1256614708_6" style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">fertile period</span> would be a lack of faith and therefore, the couple should not expect to receive God&#8217;s protection for the woman&#8217;s health.</p>
<p>But then, we learn of situations (like the example you gave in your post) where a couple did trust God, conceived, and as a result of the pregnancy, the woman died.  What happened?  Was it God&#8217;s will for her to die?  I don&#8217;t know.  I do know that God generally works within the natural biological processes which He established in His creation.  He designed the woman&#8217;s reproductive system &#8211; and generally it works as intended.  Is He able to overrule those natural processes and prevent a woman from conceiving?  Certainly.  There have been very rare instances when He has supernaturally intervened &#8211; in the case of Abraham and Sarah, also Zechariah and Elizabeth, and of course, the <span id="lw_1256614708_7">Virgin Birth</span>, God miraculously caused conception to occur when biologically it would have been impossible.  I don&#8217;t know of any recorded examples of God supernaturally preventing conception.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure you remember the breastfeeding problem I had with Andrew which forced me to stop nursing him at only 10 months.  Andrew had not yet begun eating solids and was nursing frequently throughout the day and at night &#8211; my cycles had not returned as a result.  When I started getting sores when he nursed, I called Anne and talked to her several times for quite a long time, trying to figure out what the problem was.  Anne looked through all the printed material she had and even called someone higher up in LLL &#8211; but we could not figure it out.  Our midwife, Judy came to the house and watched me breastfeed &#8211; she thought maybe Andrew wasn&#8217;t latching on correctly.  I talked to a lactation consultant, several nursing mothers, a naturopathic doctor &#8211; even had the elders from our church pray for me &#8211; Warren &amp; I prayed &#8211; no answers.  We could not figure out why I was getting sores, and finally because it was so painful I quit nursing. </p>
<p>Right away, my cycles returned and I got pregnant with Lydia.  When the same problem happened with Lydia, one phone call to Anne and about 5 minutes or less of consultation and we figured out the obvious &#8211; thrush.  It was apparent that the Lord did not answer my prayers with Andrew because it was His timing for me to get pregnant with Lydia.  He could easily have caused me to conceive while nursing &#8211; most women have their cycles return while nursing and usually before 10 months postpartum. But not me &#8211; I have never ovulated while nursing (well I finally did with Lydia after transferring her to her sister&#8217;s room at night when she was 23 months old).  This whole experience confirmed for me that the Lord works within His created order.  He still was in control and His will was accomplished.  I thought it was pretty miraculous, but it was not &#8220;supernaturally miraculous&#8221; like what happened to the virgin Mary.</p>
<p>So in a situation where the woman continues to be fertile even though pregnancy could be life-threatening it is likely that if she does not abstain during her fertile times she may very well become pregnant.  I believe it is highly unlikely that the Lord will supernaturally prevent her from conceiving &#8211; if He intended to prevent her from conceiving He would have done so through natural, biological means. Which brings us back to where we started &#8211; should the couple abstain?</p>
<p>As I thought about this question, a different situation came to mind which I believe is similar in that the difficulty of the situation really tested a person&#8217;s faith.  I read a lot of biographies of Christian saints whose faith is an inspiration.  Richard Wurmbrandt, who wrote &#8220;Tortured for Christ&#8221; and founded Voice of the Martyrs ministry, told of several instances in which he was tortured and asked to reveal the identity of fellow believers.  He admits that he often lied to his torturers in order to spare his brothers from imprisonment.  Rahab is a biblical example of someone who lied in order to protect herself and the Israelite spies &#8211; this seems like a lack of faith to me, yet Rahab is listed among the faithful in <span id="lw_1256614708_8">Hebrews 11</span>.  On the other hand, <span id="lw_1256614708_9">Corrie Ten Boom</span> said that she could not bring herself to tell a lie.  On one occasion, when soldiers demanded to know where the Jews were hidden, she blurted out, &#8220;They&#8217;re under the table.&#8221;  This was true &#8211; there was a hidden panel in the floor where the Jews were hidden &#8211; it was covered by a rug and a table was placed on top.  When the soldiers looked at the table they could plainly see that no one was hiding under there so they wrote her off as a <span id="lw_1256614708_10">crazy lady</span> and began searching the rest of the house.  God protected them all.  I often wonder what I would do in a similar situation.  Of course, we don&#8217;t really know until it happens, but I&#8217;m afraid I would lie.</p>
<p>I hope this comparison makes sense to you.  People tend to respond in different ways &#8211; I would be hesitant to say that the couple who abstained lacked faith while the couple who did not, and the wife became pregnant and died, had great faith.  I just pray that I&#8217;m never in the situation to have to make that choice.</p>
<p>In some ways the &#8220;life of the mother&#8221; question reminds me of the way many Jews in Jesus&#8217; day dealt with the Law &#8211; in trying to figure out how much they could get away with (What distance is lawful for a man to walk away from his house on the Sabbath?) they were keeping the letter of the Law while completely missing the spirit of the Law.  I am not saying this because I think it applies to you &#8211; I don&#8217;t.  But while we&#8217;re on the subject &#8211; this is something that I think is important to consider.  The &#8220;spirit&#8221; of being <span id="lw_1256614708_11">QuiverFull</span> is simply to view children as God views them &#8211; they&#8217;re a blessing, plain and simple.  Whether a couple has a dozen children or only one &#8211; it is important to welcome them in the same spirit in which we would receive the Lord Jesus Himself.</p>
<p>God does not send children as a punishment &#8211; He sends them, in part, because He knows that we need them to keep us from our own sinful tendencies of selfishness and self-gratification.  In the same manner, I tell my children that even if I could afford a maid, a cook, and a gardener, I would still make sure they had plenty of chores to do. Not because I want my house to be spotless and my yard to be immaculate &#8211; but because I see what happens when they have too much time on their hands &#8211; they become discontented, bored, lazy, picking on each other, etc.  When they have plenty of work to do, the selfish tendencies all but disappear &#8211; they are pleasant and co-operative.  I don&#8217;t make them work day and night, of course &#8211; and the Lord does provide much that is enjoyable and rewarding in our work as parents. So, I try to keep a healthy perspective to my QuiverFull beliefs &#8211; it&#8217;s not just &#8220;we do not use birth control&#8221; &#8211; we need to see God as a loving, caring Father Who wants to give us good gifts.</p>
<p>I love to share my own experience and offer whatever resources I have &#8211; and I know that my strong convictions are obvious &#8211; but I do hope you know that I am not trying to &#8220;convince&#8221; you.  Only the <span id="lw_1256614708_12" style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">Holy Spirit </span>can do that &#8211; and I&#8217;ve learned that He works in His own time and His own way and He always deals with us as individuals.  I am fully convinced to trust Him with our &#8220;family planning&#8221; and welcome however many children He desires to give us &#8211; but it was a long journey for us to go from permanent sterilization (vasectomy) to no birth control at all &#8211; and it took several years for us to get to that point.</p>
<p>I was recently reading Dr. Sears&#8217; book on <span id="lw_1256614708_13">Attachment Parenting</span> &#8211; he stated that from the &#8220;outside&#8221; AP can seem overwhelming and like it would drive a mother to exhaustion &#8211; no bottles, no pacifiers, co-sleeping, baby wearing, responding immediately to baby&#8217;s cries, etc.  Anyone who first hears of this style of parenting might think &#8211; I would be frazzled &#8211; I&#8217;d never get any sleep, I&#8217;d go nuts jumping at every little cry, the baby would be spoiled, etc.  But the mothers who actually do it find that they are more relaxed, get more sleep, enjoy their children more, etc. </p>
<p>As I was reading that I thought the same goes for the &#8220;quiverfull&#8221; lifestyle &#8211; from the outside it looks exhausting &#8211; but those couples I know who are doing it actually have very peaceful, relaxed homes.  They enjoy their children and usually have less of a workload than most of the couples who limit their family size.  I guess it&#8217;s kind of a paradox &#8211; like taking the &#8220;narrow road&#8221; which seems restrictive and hard &#8211; but in fact is free and peaceful &#8211; a &#8220;light burden&#8221; and &#8220;rest&#8221; as Jesus promised.  On the other hand, the &#8220;broad road&#8221; seems easy and carefree, but leads to heartache and trouble.  Those who seek to shirk responsibility actually end up more weighed down and miserable than those who embrace their duties.  I hope this doesn&#8217;t sound preachy &#8211; it probably does!</p>
<p>If, before Warren had the <span id="lw_1256614708_14">vasectomy reversal</span> someone had told us that I&#8217;d spend the next 7 years either pregnant or nursing (all but about 8 months &#8211; and not consecutively) &#8211; I&#8217;d have seriously had second thoughts.  I would have said, &#8220;That would kill me.&#8221;  But, in reality it has not been burdensome to me.  Attitude helps a lot and what helps my attitude is knowing definitely that God has called me to this lifestyle.  Any mom who does not have that sure conviction from God &#8211; I would not recommend adopting this sort of lifestyle &#8211; because it would be too difficult.  On the other hand,  if I knew for sure that God gave me this conviction, but I rejected it and went my own way, I know that I and my family would suffer the consequences.  We see families all around us who are only half committed to serving the Lord &#8211; and it is so apparent in the struggles they encounter &#8211; marriage breakups, wayward and rebellious children, financial difficulties, spiritual dryness, etc.</p>
<p>I urge you to be in prayer (as I know you already are) and take the time and effort required to know the <span id="lw_1256614708_15">will of God</span> for your individual family.  Let the couples whose health problem requires a life or death decision in regard to family planning seek the Lord for direction in their own circumstance.  Such is not the case with you.  I am confident that the Lord will guide and direct your husband and you in the choices that He desires for your family as you seek His best for your lives.</p>
<p>===========================================<br />
Vyckie Bennett and her husband, Warren homeschool their six children in Northeast Nebraska.  They are expecting another blessing (their fourth &#8220;reversal baby&#8221;) in March 2003.</p>
<p>Just a couple of comments here:</p>
<p>First, I think it&#8217;s apparent that, while I did hold strong Quiverfull convictions, mine was not a legalistic, dogmatic &#8220;misinterpretation&#8221; of the Gospel, but rather a deeply personal, Spirit-led walk of faith.</p>
<p>I was actually trying to be generous when I wrote this and therefore held back on stating my true belief and modern OB/GYNs are, as Dr. Mendelsohn contends in his book, <em>Male Practice: How Doctors Manipulate Women</em>, &#8220;priests&#8221; in the cult of modern medicine.  I didn&#8217;t come right out and say that I honestly doubted that for some women, pregnancy is a life-threatening condition.  (My years as a staunch pro-life advocate taught me that the &#8220;life of the mother&#8221; argument was really only a convenient fallacy promoted by the pro-aborts.)</p>
<p>I also had no real comprehension that pregnancy was actually a life-threatening condition FOR ME.  Even later ~ after I experienced a partial-uterine rupture which nearly killed Wesley and me, I still did not believe that pregnancy was any greater risk to my health than it was for the average woman. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s so much more I could say ~ but I think I&#8217;ll stop here and let <a href="http://nolongerquivering.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=life" target="_blank">NLQ readers take up the discussion over on the forum</a>. <img src='http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Michelle Duggar is expecting her 19th child</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/09/01/michelle-duggar-is-expecting-her-19th-child/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/09/01/michelle-duggar-is-expecting-her-19th-child/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 14:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Hot Topics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christians and birth control]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Duggar family]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[proverbs 31 wife]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[by Vyckie Michelle Duggar with her children after the birth of baby #18 The news at People.com is that the Duggar family is joyously anticipating the arrival of their newest baby in the spring. &#8220;I love all of this, it is so fun,&#8221; says Michelle. &#8220;Anna and I will have babies five months apart.&#8221; According <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/09/01/michelle-duggar-is-expecting-her-19th-child/"><b>Full post ...</b></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span style="color: #008000;"><em>by Vyckie</em></span><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-1176" title="070802_duggars_hmed_4phmedium" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/070802_duggars_hmed_4phmedium.jpg" alt="070802_duggars_hmed_4phmedium" width="401" height="273" /></p>
<p><em>Michelle Duggar with her children after the birth of baby #18</em></p>
<p>The news at <a href="http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20301647,00.html" target="_blank">People.com</a> is that the Duggar family is joyously anticipating the arrival of their newest baby in the spring.</p>
<p>&#8220;I love all of this, it is so fun,&#8221; says Michelle. &#8220;Anna and I will have babies five months apart.&#8221;</p>
<p>According to the article, there are &#8220;no health concerns&#8221; for 42-year-old Michelle.  &#8220;Some women are made to have babies, and Michelle is to the nth degree,&#8221; ob-gyn Amy Sarver told PEOPLE in December. &#8220;She is in terrific health without any strain on her uterus.&#8221;</p>
<p>So Michelle Duggar is &#8220;made to have babies&#8221; ~ huh?</p>
<p>Of course, a seemingly logical question for those who are considering the quiverfull lifestyle would be, &#8220;What about the women who are not made to have babies?&#8221;  It&#8217;s a question which I asked early on ~ because after 3 c-section deliveries, I was convinced that my body was not cut out for childbearing.</p>
<p>The answer which I found from leading quiverfull proponents such as Mary Pride and Nancy Campbell was &#8220;trust the Lord.&#8221;</p>
<p>Pride goes so far as to say that many Christians risk their lives as missionaries ~ and if one should be killed in service to the Lord, that true believer will be found faithful ~ they will be rewarded with the Lord&#8217;s approval, &#8220;Well done, thou good and faithful servant &#8230; enter thou into the joy of thy lord.&#8221;  Considering this eternal perspective, Pride argues, why would any Christian woman shrink back from an opportunity to earn a Martyr&#8217;s Crown?<span id="more-983"></span></p>
<p>Even after 7 tremendously difficult pregnancies with dangerously low blood pressure throughout, 5 c-sections and finally, a partial-uterine rupture, I was so convinced of my obligation to &#8220;trust the Lord&#8221; in my reproductive life that I still could not let myself off the hook ~ after all, I was still alive, still fertile.  Having once put my hand to the plow, why would I even consider looking back now?</p>
<p>I have to say, as I read that part of the article in which the doctor declares, &#8220;She is in terrific health without any strain on her uterus&#8221; ~ my eyes were rolling and I&#8217;m thinking ~ <em>19 kids without any strain on her uterus ~ yeah right.</em></p>
<p>The truth is ~ QF women develop a dangerous tendency to think of themselves as invincible.  Having narrowly escaped death on numerous occasions, I honestly believed that &#8220;I survived another horrendous delivery ~ the next one isn&#8217;t likely to kill me either.&#8221;</p>
<p>Amazingly, even after suffering a partial uterine rupture, I was not convinced that pregnancy and childbirth could be a life-threatening condition for me.  My uncle once wrote to me, &#8220;You have been extraordinarily brave in the face of real threats to your health and that of your newborns. How great was your fear of dying that you would risk it?&#8221;</p>
<p>This was my response:</p>
<blockquote><p>I am actually rather fearless ~ much to the consternation of those who love me. My mother has pleaded with me more than once not to get pregnant again ~ and poor Warren ~ he is so much more afraid for me than I am.</p>
<p>Anyone who has already been to Hell and has found some good there is unlikely to be terrified of unknown or difficult things.</p>
<p>And besides ~ mine is a calculated risk. I know my health could be so much improved if only I didn&#8217;t subject myself to continual hardship ~ but I don&#8217;t believe that I&#8217;m risking my life. During my last delivery, when my uterus split open and I might have died (but didn&#8217;t ~ I think that counts as something more than just good luck) ~ the surgeon, who has liability concerns and is financially motivated not to take any risk with my life, spent almost two hours carefully stitching me back together all neat and tidy. Why didn&#8217;t he just give me a hysterectomy? He could have done it in ten minutes and made some extra profit. He&#8217;s been my doctor for nearly two decades and he knows how I believe about birth control ~ so he knew full well that if he left me my uterus there&#8217;s every possibility that I might put it to use again. I say, future pregnancies couldn&#8217;t be all that risky ~ or the doctor, a man in the position to know, would not have taken the risk. To me, this is not the same as blindly putting my trust in doctors and medicine ~ all factors considered, I do have confidence in the surgeon&#8217;s assessment of the risk to my life.</p>
<p>Sure, I could die ~ but we all could whether we insulate ourselves from the possibility or not.</p></blockquote>
<p>As a fully-convinced QFer, I often wrote and spoke about my experience of enduring extremely difficult pregnancies and deliveries ~ and my message to other women was always this:  If <em><strong>I</strong></em> can trust the Lord with my reproductive life, <em>anyone can</em>.  &#8220;<a href="http://www.aboverubies.org/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=331:a-tough-conviction&amp;catid=48&amp;Itemid=73" target="_blank">A tough conviction</a>, yes ~ but well worth the trouble considering the Lord&#8217;s promised reward.&#8221;</p>
<p>Recently, a friend mentioned that she had watched a marathon of Duggar programs on TLC.  Being familiar with my own experience with the quiverfull philosophy and lifestyle, she was fully expecting to find serious extremism ~ but the programs showed a regular family doing run-of-the-mill stuff which all families do ~ only times eighteen.</p>
<p>&#8220;They seem pretty normal,&#8221; my friend said.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the trouble right there.  The Duggar family is portrayed as &#8220;normal&#8221; (okay, what&#8217;s &#8220;normal&#8221; about having 18 children and another on the way?) ~ a loving, whimsical family.  The quiverfull lifestyle can be extremely enticing for any woman who longs to be fulfilled and appreciated in her roles of wife and mother ~ what woman wouldn&#8217;t be drawn to such an idyllic picture of abundant and joyous motherhood?</p>
<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=duggar19" target="_blank"><em>Discuss the post on the NLQ forums!</em></a></p>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>Unassisted Bathtub Births and Quiverfull</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/07/24/unassisted-bathtub-births-and-quiverfull/</link>
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		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 15:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Here&#8217;s the FOX 59 report which includes a portion of the interview that I did in Minneapolis:   Discuss this post on the NLQ forums! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ NLQ Recommends ... 'Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment' by Janet Heimlich ‘Quivering Daughters‘ by Hillary McFarland ‘Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement‘ by Kathryn Joyce]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s <a href="http://www.fox59.com/wxin-unassisted-bathtub-births-072309,0,6360522.story" target="_blank">the FOX 59 report</a> which includes a portion of the interview that I did in Minneapolis:<br />
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<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>Dear Carri ~ an open letter from one traumatized &quot;mom of many&quot; to another</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/06/29/dear-carri-an-open-letter-from-one-traumatized-mom-of-many-to-another/</link>
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		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[by Vyckie I was recently interviewed by a Minnesota news station in relation to the sad case of Carri Chmielewski ~ a &#8220;quiverfull&#8221; mother whose planned unassisted home birth of baby #9 ended tragically. As one who has been in similar high-risk situations with three of my pregnancies ~ I wrote a piece expressing my <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/06/29/dear-carri-an-open-letter-from-one-traumatized-mom-of-many-to-another/"><b>Full post ...</b></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span style="font-style:italic;color:#009900;font-size:100%;">by Vyckie<br />
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-style:italic;"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-1295" title="100_6454a" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/100_6454a.jpg" alt="100_6454a" width="134" height="200" /></span></p>
<p><span style="font-style:italic;">I was recently interviewed by a Minnesota news station in relation to the sad case of Carri Chmielewski ~ a &#8220;quiverfull&#8221; mother whose planned unassisted home birth of baby #9 <a href="http://wjdgi.blogspot.com/2009/06/death-of-benaiah-chmielewski.html">ended tragically</a>.</span></p>
<p>As one who has been in similar high-risk situations with three of my pregnancies ~ I wrote a piece expressing my initial reaction (<a href="http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/06/22/re-carri-benaiah-chmielewski-i-am-sickened-and-mortified/"><span style="font-style:italic;">sickened and mortified</span></a><span style="font-style:italic;">) to the news that Carri&#8217;s baby boy had died due to an </span><span style="font-style:italic;">amniotic</span><span style="font-style:italic;"> fluid embolism (AFE) ~ a situation which might not have developed had she sought competent medical treatment earlier in her pregnancy when she first suspected she might be carrying twins.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-style:italic;">During the interview, I was asked, &#8220;What would you want to say to Carri?&#8221; </span>OMG<span style="font-style:italic;"> ~ I had no idea what to say to Carri. Having gone through the faith-testing trial myself ~ the </span><span style="font-style:italic;">indescribable</span><span style="font-style:italic;"> trauma ~ the near loss of life ~ and then to do it again ~ and again &#8230; at least my babies all survived &#8230; what is there to say to Carri? </span></p>
<p><span style="font-style:italic;">&#8220;I&#8217;m so sorry for your loss&#8221; really doesn&#8217;t cut it ~ you know?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-style:italic;">Initially, I declined to answer the question. But now that I&#8217;ve had more time to really think about it ~ I actually do want to speak to Carri. I&#8217;ll probably never meet this woman ~ who doesn&#8217;t know me from Adam, but with whom I feel a woeful sort of &#8220;shared experience&#8221; connection ~ so, I&#8217;m writing this letter to Carri from my heart ~ in no way do I want to add to the unbearable pain which Carri is already experiencing ~ I only hope that I might have something to say which could encourage and edify Carri ~ and possibly help with the healing process.</span></p>
<p>Dear Carri,</p>
<p>I am one of the many, many &#8220;internet addicts&#8221; who followed your &#8220;Carri-Me-Away&#8221; blog with fascination, admiration ~ and yes, a certain amount of dread and fear ~ as you journaled about your pregnancy (with twins!) ~ the ups and downs of waiting (not always quite patiently) in anticipation of the arrival of the new little ones ~ seeking the Lord&#8217;s will for a safe, happy delivery in your own home where you and your babies would be surrounded by loved ones ~ where you could feel comfortable, cared for, and supported.</p>
<p>The final weeks and days leading up to the due date (and beyond) are a crazy mixture of excitement and exhaustion ~ of hope and expectation ~ and of really.wanting.this.to.be.over.with! You expressed all these feelings so candidly and with such sweetness in each post ~ we couldn&#8217;t help but love you and wish you all the best ~ and hold our collective breath as we waited for news that &#8220;The babies are here!&#8221;<span id="more-176"></span></p>
<p><span class="fullpost">It&#8217;s true that many of us who were checking your blog daily were upset that you hadn&#8217;t gone to a qualified OB doctor ~ many were convinced that you were unnecessarily putting your life and that of your babies in danger ~ some were even outraged about the risks you were taking and your apparent lack of sense in eschewing sound medical treatment.</span></p>
<p>Personally, I was a bit worried too ~ but not overly so because I have been in similar situations on several occasions ~ and even though I realize now that I hadn&#8217;t made the best (safest) choices for myself and my babies ~ at the time, I had put my trust in the Lord and, in the end, everything turned out okay ~ I survived and the babies were alive, healthy and thriving. I believed the same would be true for you ~ maybe you wouldn&#8217;t get the wonderful, peaceful home birth ~ but if you had to go the hospital, that&#8217;d not be too terribly awful ~ you&#8217;d have your babies and that&#8217;s really all that matters, right?</p>
<p>Carri, when I read that you&#8217;d suffered an AFE and that you&#8217;d lost the baby ~ the news brought back a flood of memories from my own high-risk deliveries and triggered a PTSD reaction that I just had to write about. I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve already read the &#8220;verbal vomit&#8221; which I posted on my <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com">No Longer Quivering</a> blog ~ I just was so shook up ~ I felt like I could really identify with your ordeal and I was horrified to think that my birth stories could easily have ended as badly as yours ~ and all this time I&#8217;ve been telling myself that I really wasn&#8217;t being incredibly misguided, misinformed, negligent, and just plain stupid in the birthing choices which I&#8217;d made for myself and my children.</p>
<p>Like you, I held to a firm conviction that children are a blessing from the Lord and I strongly desired to have as many blessings as He chose to send my way. Faced with the very real possibility of half a dozen or more pregnancies in my future ~ I was highly motivated to diligently seek out the very safest ~ least expensive, traumatic, painful and unpleasant birthing options available. I read every birthing book I could get my hands on (well, not &#8220;What to Expect When You&#8217;re Expecting&#8221; ~ I really didn&#8217;t need to scare myself into a totally medicalized birthing experience which is what I feared would happen if I read that one), I did plenty of research, I consulted with other women who had experience with natural childbirth and home birth ~ I really put my all into becoming well-informed regarding all the choices available to me.</p>
<p>The only problem was that the more I studied the situation, the more I came to feel that there weren&#8217;t really a lot of suitable options ~ in order to get the satisfactory birth experience which I so desired, I was going to have to make some tough decisions ~ I was going to have to take charge of my own birthing plan rather than passively giving myself over to &#8220;the experts&#8221; who would handle the birth in a high-tech manner which was most convenient for them and which was least likely to land them a day in court as defendants in a malpractice or negligence lawsuit.</p>
<p>You once wrote on your blog: &#8220;God never meant for man (Pregnant Women) to surrender himself (herself) to the total control of man (dr./technology, etc.) God considers that idolatry. We are to surrender ourselves to GOD.&#8221; Through my own experiences, I had come to completely share your sentiments. With my first pregnancy, I was so afraid of childbirth that I totally surrendered myself to the doctor&#8217;s judgment ~ and as a result, I ended up with a completely unnecessary c-section ~ which then led to two more scheduled repeat cesareans.</p>
<p>I had gone the route of &#8220;trusting in man&#8221; ~ I&#8217;d paid a high price personally, but I&#8217;d finally learned my lesson ~ from then on out, I was trusting in God rather than &#8220;man.&#8221;</p>
<p>I realize that your experience is really quite different than mine in that you had already successfully delivered your babies vaginally ~ and several of them at home ~ so you did not have the same risk factors. BUT, just like me ~ you had your doubts.</p>
<p>I was a little surprised that you revealed those doubts in your online journal ~ although your concerns were always accompanied by statements of faith and trust in God such as this: &#8220;As I reflected in my study today Those scriptures became alive to me and talked to my heart at where Iam and how Iam feeling. God is with me and He is lifting me up and He is giving me peace and He is keeping the devil away from my thoughts And He is giving me and our babies protection and my Dh and I provision for the birth and the babies.&#8221;</p>
<p>Although we both knew full well that a big part of what makes for better outcomes in natural childbirth is when fully-informed pregnant moms are in control ~ they are listening to their bodies and trusting their instincts ~ as Christian quiverfull women, we also learned to distrust our feelings and we daily practiced dying our own selves, surrendering control, leaving the decision-making to those in rightful authority, trusting the Lord to work through those authorities whom we submit to out of loving obedience to Jesus who serves as a living example of self-denial and true surrender to the Heavenly Father.</p>
<p>In your own words (and I said these very things myself): &#8220;God has promiced full protection and provision is we obey Him and follow His direction. &#8230; God always remains in control,and sometimes God&#8217;s plan is different from our plan..You do not always get to choose what happens..&#8221;</p>
<p>Looking back, I can clearly see now how verses such as &#8220;Trust in the Lord with all of your heart, lean not on your own understanding,&#8221; and &#8220;&#8216;my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,&#8217;<span class="nivflushright"> declares the <span class="nivsmallcaps">Lord.&#8221; ~ these and similar verses which seem to teach that women are specifically more susceptible to deception like this one: &#8220;</span></span>And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner&#8221; ~ all of this set us up as women to doubt our own perceptions ~ to dismiss our fears as irrational or as the devil sowing seeds of distrust.</p>
<p>Our deeply beloved belief system denied us an important safety net ~ that of our own feelings. When our bodies and our minds screamed out, &#8220;Something is wrong!&#8221; our faith calmed us down ~ after all the Lord has not given us a spirit of fear &#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll admit to rolling my eyes when I read your words, &#8220;God is Good to those who seek Him and He will provide you the wisdom with what you need to do in any area of your life as long as you are in right standing with Him.&#8221; My skepticism was not because I doubted your sincerity, Carri ~ it&#8217;s only that I wholeheartedly believed the exact same thing. That&#8217;s partly why I sought with all my heart, mind, soul, and strength to be right with Him ~ as right as I possibly could be ~ by discerning His will through prayer and from His Word and then faithfully following to the best of my ability. Whatever the cost ~ I wanted to be right with the Lord.</p>
<p>I know that&#8217;s what you wanted too. But being right with God did not protect either one of us from calamitous birthing outcomes.</p>
<p>After my disastrous home birth attempt, as I lay in the hospital bed, half-dead and feeling like I&#8217;d just been through a &#8220;to-the-pain&#8221; duel with Satan and he&#8217;d left me utterly defeated and humiliated ~ I was so distraught and my mind was racing trying to figure out WHAT JUST HAPPENED??!!</p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t believe that it was one of those Job scenarios in which the Lord was testing my conviction ~ Did I truly trust Him with my family planning ~ even if it meant surgical deliveries and near-death experiences? &#8220;LORD ~ YOU ALREADY KNOW I DO.&#8221; The Lord knew that I would surrender myself completely to Him ~ though He slay me. He knew the strength of my conviction ~ He knew that my faith in Him never wavered.</p>
<p>I had envisioned a glorious testimony of God&#8217;s protection and provision ~ His reward for my complete trust and obedience in allowing Him to use my womb for His purposes. I imagined myself explaining after my successful home birth that it was because I had been faithful in seeking His will for my life that the Lord had carried me and my baby safely through.</p>
<p>The only reason I had been so open in sharing about my convictions and my home birth plans is that I had every confidence that the Lord would take care of me and my baby ~ after all, He&#8217;s the one who placed these beliefs in my head and desires in my heart ~ so it was His reputation which was really at stake.</p>
<p>Despite all my hoping and trusting and committing all my plans to Him ~ everything that could go wrong in that pregnancy did go wrong ~ and in the end, I had an emergency c-section which was necessary to save my life and the life of my baby girl.</p>
<p>One girl. I, too, had the experience of being assured by my midwife that the reason for all the weight gain and other unexplained complications was that I was most likely carrying twins. Like your midwife, mine also heard two distinct heartbeats on the fetoscope. Twins! That would be wonderful! A double blessing.</p>
<p>But were there really twins? (My heart told me, &#8220;No.&#8221;) If yes ~ should I be attempting a home birth? If no ~ then why all the weight gain ~ what was wrong with this pregnancy? I&#8217;ve always believed that if I had gone to the doctor for an ultrasound, I&#8217;d have discovered that there was only one baby and then sought answers as to why I was feeling so awful. But then I learned that you did get an ultrasound ~ and when only one baby was detected ~ you called the results &#8220;inconclusive&#8221; and continued to have a strong faith despite your doubts ~ and I realize now that I&#8217;d probably have done the same thing ~ sort of a &#8220;Lord, I believe ~ help Thou my unbelief&#8221; thing ~ that&#8217;s really where you seemed to be at when you wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;I just keep tossing and turning this idea of twins I want to trust Brandi and her thinking that we have twins but I find myself doubting as each day goes by I am so up and down with it.I know one thing God knows what is in there!He will bless our family either way!I am trying to stay focused on that thought rather than playing the guessing game with twins or no twins~</p>
<p>&#8220;All signs in this pregnancy says TWINS</p>
<p>&#8220;but there is still the hey I am 40 weeks and still carrying twins?!I know that it can happen but I am just in awe I guess..I am so ready to just know and learn what we have.&#8221;</p>
<p>No twins. No home birth. No amazing testimony.</p>
<p>Instead, I was surrounded by angry nurses who thought I must be nuts to even consider home birth ~ fellow Christians who wanted to know if I still believed that the Lord had called me to trust Him with my family planning ~ my mother, who begged me not to have any more children ~ my midwife, who insisted that we&#8217;d done everything right and there was no reason why it couldn&#8217;t work out for me the next time ~ my husband, who was terrified because he&#8217;d almost lost his wife and his baby and he couldn&#8217;t imagine trying to raise a passel of children without me.</p>
<p>I never did figure out why the Lord put me through that ~ but I continued to believe that God is good ~ and never for a second did I stop trusting Him. I didn&#8217;t have to understand ~ after all, He&#8217;s God and I&#8217;m not ~ He doesn&#8217;t owe me an explanation. I had three more babies ~ again risking our lives with a home birth (after 4 cesareans) and finally planning an unassisted birth despite my own clear premonition that there was something wrong and I would need a c-section (in that case, I suffered a partial uterine rupture).</p>
<p>After that last pregnancy when I had (again) nearly lost my baby and my life ~ the discouragement I felt was overwhelming. I couldn&#8217;t understand why the Lord would reveal to me the truth that children are a blessing ~ why He would give me such a love for babies and a burning desire for more little ones ~ why would He make this conviction so plain to me and not, at the same time, honor my wholehearted acceptance of His will by making the deliveries a little easier ~ or at least not life-threatening?</p>
<p>Cripes ~ I had been SO faithful. &#8220;So what&#8217;s the deal, Lord?&#8221; Not that I would question God ~ I only wanted to know what was going wrong so that I would be alive to continue to serve Him and to raise up the precious children which He&#8217;d so abundantly blessed me with.</p>
<p>I well remember wondering if it was really such a good thing that I had lived ~ the discouragement and depression ~ the confusion ~ the anguish ~ how could I go on? In the Lord&#8217;s strength, of course ~ but I just could not fathom how He might take the wreckage and work it together for good.</p>
<p>It is a blessing and a miracle that I survived. The same goes for you, Carri. We both have paid a very high price to follow the quiverfull conviction ~ short of actual martyrdom, I&#8217;d say we gave it our all, huh? You&#8217;ve lost your baby ~ but you still have your faith which I know can be a very valuable asset in times of trouble. I don&#8217;t really think I have that anymore ~ too much has happened and the ideals which I&#8217;d staked my life on don&#8217;t make sense to me now.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still trying to sort it all out ~ and at this point, I mostly can only tell you what I no longer believe ~ but there are a couple of things I&#8217;d like to say which might ring true for you as it has for me. I don&#8217;t have chapter and verse for what I&#8217;m going to share ~ only my experience and common sense, which I admit, doesn&#8217;t count for much from the strictly fundamentalist point of view ~ but here goes anyway ~ please believe that I only want to encourage you, Carri:</p>
<p>Through all of the pain and sorrow, I&#8217;m getting the idea that we can&#8217;t go back to Eden. There is no such thing as a perfect family ~ and no matter how hard we knock ourselves out trying to be godly wives and loving mothers ~ we&#8217;re going to make mistakes and things will go wrong. This isn&#8217;t to say that we shouldn&#8217;t still try ~ but, please ~ be gentle with yourself when you&#8217;ve done your best and yet, disaster strikes. Failure doesn&#8217;t make you a bad person or an unfaithful Christian ~ we all screw up sometimes ~ and even when we do everything right ~ stuff happens. We live in an imperfect world ~ you&#8217;ve heard this before, you know it&#8217;s true.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t say this as a way to avoid responsibility for the poor choices I&#8217;ve made ~ the big lesson that I have learned in all of this is that excuses and rationalizations only compound an already messed up situation. There&#8217;s no shame in freely admitting, &#8220;<a href="http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/04/28/what-angel-really-needed/">I was wrong</a>.&#8221;</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s a whole lot easier to actually see where and how I&#8217;ve been wrong when I am willing to look at the situation <a href="http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/04/08/its-about-a-vision/">as it actually is</a> ~ rather than what I knew it could be ~ what I had hoped it would be for me. I know that home birth can be a safe, sensible option for many women who have previously given birth via c-section. I hoped that it&#8217;d be a good way for me to avoid another surgical delivery, save money, and allow us to welcome the newest little family member in the comfort and familiarity of our own home.</p>
<p>My failure was in wanting what is possible in theory to be true for me <span style="font-weight:bold;">so badly</span> ~ I could not allow myself to acknowledge that in my particular situation ~ it probably wasn&#8217;t a good idea. Rather than trust my gut feeling ~ I made more and more declarations of how I trusted in the Lord ~ how He was leading and guiding me ~ how He would keep me and my baby safe as I relied on His strength and His wisdom.</p>
<p>I know it is not fair for me to project my own experience on you, Carri ~ who the heck am I to believe that what I went through has anything whatsoever to do with you? And yet, I just have this feeling as I read posts on your blog like this one:</p>
<p>&#8220;I want to rest in Jesus I do not want to sound like I am complaining,on,ly God can fullfill me and I can not change the situation Iam in only God can..in His time..</p>
<p>&#8220;He is preparing for me to be able to birth the babies and the babies to recieve all they need in the womb..I just need to daily write it out and meditate on it. It helps me get through another day~I have thought about my wondering and dobting and I have often thought am I saying that God I do not think you are handling this situation right?</p>
<p>&#8220;If I am then I know that is from a proud heart and I need to check that real quick before the Lord or my heart will never be satisfied. I will continue to fall deeper into the pit of complaining.I do have faith that God is in control and He will see me through this bound of emotions</p>
<p>&#8220;God will refres me and fil me up daily..He will provide my needs and my babies or baby needs..I need to trust Him and keep him in control of this birth and not me!&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh, Carri ~ what can I say? I understand why you did not go to an OB doctor ~ I understand why you did not insist on a second opinion when you were unsure whether you were actually carrying twins. You did exactly what you believed to be the one thing which would absolutely ensure a safe and healthy delivery for yourself and for your baby ~ you trusted in God and His promises and what you believed to be His will for you.</p>
<p>I do not fault you. I will not deny the reality or question the sincerity of your walk of faith and trust in the Lord. I can only offer you my empathy and all the best wishes as you struggle to recover your health ~ and as you grieve the loss of your precious baby boy. May you find peace, unconditional love and support, strength for the journey ~ and above all, please don&#8217;t ever again discount what your own heart is telling you.</p>
<p>With compassion and hope for the future,</p>
<p>Vyckie</p>
<p><a style="font-style:italic;color:#006600;" href="http://nolongerquivering.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=dearcarri">Go to NLQ forum</a></p>
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<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>Vyckie&#8217;s Tour de Crap: A Change of Heart</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/05/09/vyckies-tour-de-crap-a-change-of-heart/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/05/09/vyckies-tour-de-crap-a-change-of-heart/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 23:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Vyckie's Tour de Crap]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[above rubies]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[birth control]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[change of heart]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fundamentalism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[natural family planning]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[reproductive choice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[tubal ligations]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[vasectomy reversal]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/05/09/vyckies-tour-de-crap-a-change-of-heart/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Are these all yours? No ~ not all ~ Angel was at the zoo when this picture was taken yesterday at the park ~ so one of them is missing I&#8217;ve been thinking that now would be a good time to add our &#8220;reversal testimony&#8221; to my Tour de Crap ~ since I am to <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/05/09/vyckies-tour-de-crap-a-change-of-heart/"><b>Full post ...</b></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-1354" title="100_6006a" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/100_6006a.jpg" alt="100_6006a" width="400" height="267" /></p>
<p><em>Are these all yours? No ~ not all ~ Angel was at the zoo when this picture was taken yesterday at the park ~ so one of them is missing <img src='http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </em></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been thinking that now would be a good time to add our &#8220;reversal testimony&#8221; to my<span style="font-style:italic;"> Tour de Crap</span> ~ since I am to the part in my story when the babies started coming &#8230; and coming &#8230; and coming. Plus ~ Mother&#8217;s Day is coming up so that seems like an appropriate opportunity to tell how it is that, although I had determined as a child that I would never have any children, I ended up as a mother to seven kids. (And in case you&#8217;re worried that I&#8217;m not happy about all these children, <a href="http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/07/09/lo-children-are-a-blessing/">please read this</a>.)</p>
<p>I originally wrote this testimony about six months after our first &#8220;reversal baby,&#8221; Hazelle, was born ~ it appeared as a chapter in Nancy Campbell&#8217;s book, &#8220;A Change of Heart: Testimonies of Couples Who Have Had Reversals of Vasectomies and Tubal Ligations&#8221; ~ my chapter was titled, &#8220;A Tough Conviction.&#8221; A few years later, when Nancy wanted to republish the book, I added the update to tell about the addition of Andrew, Lydia Jean, and Wesley to our family.</p>
<p>So, here&#8217;s the article ~ at the end, I&#8217;ll add some commentary:<span id="more-159"></span></p>
<blockquote><p>A CHANGE OF HEART</p>
<p>by vyckie bennett</p>
<p>During our premarital counseling, Warren and I asked the pastor if it was okay to use birth control. Since I had already had a daughter, Angel, who was four years old, I knew that I would have to deliver all my children by c-section. This would be expensive, but I still wondered if we wouldn&#8217;t be &#8220;playing God&#8221; by using birth control. The pastor said that he felt sure that the Lord would want us to &#8220;get established&#8221; before having any more children. I was extremely apprehensive about going to the clinic to get free pills because I knew that abortions were performed there. So the pastor&#8217;s wife went along with me to the Emma Goldman Clinic in Iowa City to offer &#8220;moral support.&#8221; It was a very creepy place.</p>
<p>I was never really faithful about using the Pill, I suppose my heart was just not in it. It didn&#8217;t take long before I was pregnant. I miscarried that baby, and although I hadn’t wanted to get pregnant at that time, I was very devastated by the loss. I tried to get pregnant again right away, which I did within two months. Berea was born by c-section on August 26, 1991. The recovery from the c-section was difficult and I experienced some postpartum depression.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t want to go through so much misery again too soon, so I made an appointment to get a Norplant insert. I thought a five-year break would be about right, then we&#8217;d think about having more children. But when I mentioned to a Christian friend that I was getting a Norplant, she told me that it could act as an abortifacient. I decided to reschedule my appointment so I would have some extra time to find out more about Norplant. In the meantime, I got pregnant. Berea was only four months old, so the c-section was still pretty fresh in my memory. I cried at the thought of having to go through that again. At the same time, I was happy to have another baby, because they are so precious and lovable!</p>
<p>Our third girl, Chassé was born on October 16, 1992. This time the c-section was much easier since it was so soon after the last one so I could remember all the little tricks that had helped with recovery the last time. A few days after I came home from the hospital, I broke out in hives. The doctor prescribed some Benadryl for the swelling that was mostly in my eyes. The pain pills must have affected my thinking, because after I took the pills I set them on my desk, within Berea&#8217;s reach. I even thought to myself, &#8220;Berea can probably reach those, I should put them up.&#8221; However, I was so &#8220;out of it&#8221; from the medication that I just went back to bed.</p>
<p>Warren woke me to tell me that Berea had eaten some of my pills. We had to take her to the emergency room, but since Warren is blind (and doesn&#8217;t drive), and I still could not drive because I had just had surgery, we had to call my sister to take us to the ER.</p>
<p>Here I was at the hospital: with a 13-month-old who had been poisoned and her week old baby sister. I was so drugged up that I barely knew what I was doing. My face was all red and my eyes were swollen shut from the hives. I thought, <span style="font-style:italic;">&#8220;I can&#8217;t go through this anymore! This is too much!&#8221;</span></p>
<p>I decided to talk to a Christian OB/GYN about birth control. I asked specifically, &#8220;Is it Biblical?&#8221; The doctor did not answer my question. Instead, he began telling me about all of my &#8220;options,&#8221; i.e., the Pill, the condom, etc. When I asked about Natural Family Planning, he cracked a joke about the only word he had for couples who relied on NFP for birth control &#8211; &#8220;I call them <span style="font-style:italic;">parents!</span>&#8221;</p>
<p>Warren consulted with our pastor (we had moved and were attending a fundamentalist, &#8220;Bible-believing&#8221; Baptist church). He asked the same question, &#8220;Is birth control Biblical?&#8221; The pastor did not refer to the Bible at all, but stated that he believed the Lord wanted us to properly raise the children we had. He said that he was planning to have a vasectomy himself. We tried to search the Bible for ourselves, but did not know where to look &#8211; we certainly didn&#8217;t find anything in the concordance under ‘birth control,’ ‘contraception,’ or ‘The Pill!’</p>
<p>About this time, Bill Clinton was elected President and we began to wonder how we would raise godly children in such a wicked world. We were worried about whether we would be allowed to home educate our girls, whether we could afford the three children we already had and how we would pay for any future pregnancies. We could not get insurance to pay for c-sections, as it was a pre-existing condition.</p>
<p>The day after Christmas 1992, Warren had a vasectomy. Even before we left the doctor&#8217;s office we both felt terrible about our decision, but we thought, &#8220;What else could we do?&#8221; After all, the Lord wants us to be wise stewards and it wouldn&#8217;t be very ‘smart’ to continue to have children and place such strain on our family &#8211; right?</p>
<p>Over the next couple of years the Lord really worked on our hearts. He convicted us of our fear, which is not faith and therefore sin. I finally read Mary Pride&#8217;s book, All the Way Home and we became convinced that we had sinned in this area. We realized that the Bible actually has quite a bit to say about birth control, specifically ‘conception control’ which is God&#8217;s prerogative and not man&#8217;s.</p>
<p>I want to be very honest about the effects of the vasectomy on our marriage. I pray it will be a warning for anyone else who might take sterilization lightly as we did. I began to identify with Rachel in the Bible who wept and mourned for her children. I felt that God had intended to give us more children, but that we were preventing their conception. I cried often as I longed to hold my babies! I constantly battled with the temptation to become bitter towards my husband. Sometimes I would catch myself thinking, &#8220;I&#8217;m not the one who can&#8217;t have any more children &#8211; it&#8217;s Warren who is sterile.&#8221; I&#8217;m sure you understand the implication of such thinking. Only by much prayer was I able to put those kinds of thoughts out of my head.</p>
<p>Whenever I looked at Chassé, or held her, I was constantly reminded that we had not intended to have her. She is such a sweet and delightful little girl, yet we had planned on getting the Norplant to make sure she wouldn&#8217;t be conceived. I felt guilty knowing that our own wisdom and selfishness would have denied Chassé her very life. It only confirmed that God knew what was best for us. He gave us such a precious blessing, even though we had other plans.</p>
<p>Both Warren and I felt that since we knew that the vasectomy was wrong, we must do whatever we could to make things right again. The local urologist we spoke with looked at our three daughters and said, &#8220;You have a beautiful family. You should concentrate on raising them properly. But if you really think you want a boy . . .&#8221; He said he could do the procedure for $6,000, not counting the hospital costs. Of course this seemed like an impossible amount of money. I was already working full-time to supplement Warren&#8217;s income. Nevertheless, we believed that God wanted us to get the reversal, so we began saving about 15% of our income each month towards the surgery. We had to save a large percentage because we wanted the reversal before I went through menopause! I was 29 years old at the time.</p>
<p>About two months after we started saving a friend gave us a publication by the Couple to Couple League which mentioned that CCL had a list of surgeons who did reversals at a reduced cost. I called immediately for the list and found that there was a doctor in Omaha, about 100 miles away. The flyer said that he charged approximately $1,500. We made an appointment and when this Urologist saw our three daughters, he said, &#8220;You have beautiful children, you should have more!&#8221; He explained that the sooner the reversal was done after the original vasectomy, the more likely it would be successful. It had been about two years since Warren&#8217;s vasectomy and the doctor wanted to do the surgery right away. When we explained that we did not yet have the money, he told us not to worry about it as we could make payments. &#8220;We&#8217;re not going to leave you without money to put food on your table,&#8221; he told us.</p>
<p>On Valentine&#8217;s Day 1995, Warren had the reversal surgery. The surgery went fine and when we got the final bill from the doctor it was only $170. No joke!</p>
<p>We knew the surgery was successful when I became pregnant in early June. Through a series of events we discovered my first three c-sections had been totally unnecessary. Imagine my disgust! I was at the same time, however, delighted by the possibility of having this baby naturally. We were convinced that this was the Lord&#8217;s way of providing financially for the delivery. I thought the Lord must have been honoring our obedience by showing us an easier way to have the babies.</p>
<p>Things did not go as planned, however. In mid-February I caught the flu, which lasted for six days and totally depleted my strength. By the time I went into labor, I was too exhausted to deliver the baby naturally. Hazelle Elizabeth was born on February 23, 1996 &#8211; our fourth girl, and such a precious little one!</p>
<p>Because she was also born by c-section, I felt that our resolve to allow the Lord to have control over our reproductive lives was being tested. How could we trust Him, when I had such difficulty delivering each baby? What about the hospital costs? At one point during the surgery, due to the complications from the flu, I really thought I was going to die on the table. Could I go through it again? One look into little Hazelle&#8217;s eyes and we have our answer. She is an absolute joy!</p>
<p>Yes, it can be a tough conviction to live with. But that seems to be true about most of our journey down the &#8220;narrow path&#8221; of our Christian walk. Sufferings, persecutions, and tribulations are all to be expected as we endeavor to be faithful to God&#8217;s revealed will for our lives. But the rewards are great, both here and hereafter. We are blessed with children, the joy each one brings can hardly be expressed. We are blessed with *peace, knowing that we are being conformed to His image as we submit ourselves to His refining and purifying fires. Oftentimes it feels like &#8220;the heat is on.&#8221; But, oh the beauty of fine gold!</p>
<p>When Hazelle was 19 months old, I became pregnant again. Although we were very excited about welcoming another child to our family, I was somewhat apprehensive about the upcoming delivery. Should I attempt another natural delivery? It just didn&#8217;t seem right for me to give up and schedule another c-section, knowing that medically there really was no reason that I should not be able to deliver my babies without surgical intervention. About halfway through the pregnancy I had a very strong sense of assurance from the Lord that this delivery would go well. I remember thinking that the Lord was going to allow me to have a natural birth and that He would change my name from Vyckie to Victoria — because I would be victorious! On June 20, 1998, Kent Andrew was born at home with the assistance of a midwife. Although I had a very long (40+) labor, it was not painful and there were no complications. A homebirth after four cesareans — truly, the Lord has rewarded our willingness to trust Him with our family in spite of the difficulties! Our firstborn son, &#8220;Andrew&#8221; arrived about an hour too early for Father&#8217;s Day, but he is a great gift nevertheless.</p>
<p>We have been blessed in every manner — physically (no more c-sections), financially (our small home business has prospered so that we are more than able to provide for our household), and especially spiritually. Our eyes have been opened to so many Bible truths, and we have peace with God and a clear conscience that were lacking when our total focus was on our own comfort and desires.</p>
<p>The Lord has since added a two additional blessings — Lydia Jeannette, born May 6, 2000 and David Wesley, born March 23, 2003.</p>
<p>Having seven children is actually less work for me than when I had three young ones. Angel, Berea &amp; Chassé are old enough to do most of the housework and a good deal of the cooking. They&#8217;re also very eager to help care for and entertain the younger ones. When I think of how we nearly missed out on these four special people whom the Lord has placed in our family since Warren&#8217;s reversal, I am horrified that we could so easily have prevented their very existence. To me, this is worse than abortion because in that case at least the child has life — although, sadly aborted children will never know their mothers&#8217; love.</p>
<p>I often wonder why the Lord chose to convict us of this truth — that children are a blessing and that we&#8217;ve no right to make eternal choices regarding another being&#8217;s existence. I know of so many other Christian couples who are limiting their children or &#8220;planning&#8221; their families for the sake of their convenience, but I am convinced that God has not given Warren &amp; me that option. He has called us to a life of faith and trust, and He has proved Himself ever faithful on our behalf.</p></blockquote>
<p>Sigh.</p>
<p>I could not see it at the time, but this testimony has it all: <a href="http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/19/its-about-martyrdom/">Martrydom</a>, <a href="http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/17/its-about-superiority/">Superiority</a>, <a href="http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/04/08/its-about-a-vision/">The VISION</a>, <a href="http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/04/09/its-about-conviction/">Conviction</a>, <a href="http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/03/24/its-a-kid-collecting-competition/">Kid Collecting</a>, <a href="http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/04/13/we-didnt-want-to-be-balanced/">Lack of Balance</a>, &#8230;</p>
<p>I wonder now how convincing my testimony would have been if I&#8217;d have included all the details of my horrendous pregnancy and delivery with Hazelle, <a href="http://www.nolongerquivering.com/2009/04/24/did-i-really-trust-him/">the gross incompetence</a> of the midwife, Judy Jones, during my home birth, the partial-uterine rupture during Wesley&#8217;s delivery which nearly left six children to be raised by their ultra-domineering, tyrannical father?</p>
<p><a href="http://nolongerquivering.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=change"><span style="color:#003300;font-style:italic;">Discuss this post on the NLQ forums!</span></a></p>
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<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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		<title>I Have Too Many Kids!</title>
		<link>http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/04/04/i-have-too-many-kids/</link>
		<comments>http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/04/04/i-have-too-many-kids/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 16:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>nolongerquivering</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Must Read! ~ NLQ Readers Choice ...]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[children are a blessing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[quiverfull]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[reproductive choice]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[    Kiss me right there, Mom! I&#8217;m up way too late working on my story ~ thought I&#8217;d take a break for a minute and go moderate comments. I found the following from &#8220;Cynthia&#8221; and started to post my own comment in reply ~ but after typing for a bit, decided I don&#8217;t want <a href="http://nolongerquivering.com/2009/04/04/i-have-too-many-kids/"><b>Full post ...</b></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span style="font-style:italic;color:#009900;font-size:100%;"> </span></p>
<div style="text-align:center;"><span style="font-style:italic;"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-1751" title="0p100_5642" src="http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/0p100_5642.jpg" alt="0p100_5642" width="400" height="286" /></span></div>
<div style="text-align:center;"><span style="font-style:italic;"> </span></div>
<div style="text-align:center;"><span style="font-style:italic;">Kiss me right there, Mom!</span></div>
<p>I&#8217;m up way too late working on my story ~ thought I&#8217;d take a break for a minute and go moderate comments. I found the following from &#8220;Cynthia&#8221; and started to post my own comment in reply ~ but after typing for a bit, decided I don&#8217;t want this buried in the comments section ~ it needs to be a post of its own.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s what <strong><a href="http://alifeprofound.wordpress.com/">Cynthia</a></strong> wrote:</p>
<p><em>Wow, I am amazed how so many things seem to be falling into a straight line for me regarding this issue.</em></p>
<p><em>I have nine children simply because I was emotionally and spiritually manipulated into a quiverfull mindset. Finally, with the birth of my last child, we realized that we needed to finish what we had started and raise these children well and I had a tubal ligation. Thus began the walking away.<span id="more-112"></span></em></p>
<p><em><span class="fullpost">Since the beginning of the year, I have been dealing with reconciling the reason why I have nine children and having them and continuing to be there mother in a healthy way. I have been slammed with how so many things tainted the gospel &#8230; and now in effect, they have become tainted. Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I love my children and if nothing else, they are the good that came out of those years in the quiverfull movement but at the same time, it hurts to realize that I was so vulnerable and deceived.</span></em></p>
<p><em>Then, last week and again this week, I have found the book, Quiverfull, referenced on several blogs that I follow and then tonight, I have found your blog. I haven&#8217;t even started reading yet, really. Just revisiting it causes me a lot of weird emotions. I will probably read in small doses and comment as I go along. Obviously, it is time to deal with all of this.</em></p>
<p><em>Grace and Peace,</em></p>
<p><em>Cynthia</em></p>
<p>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</p>
<p>And here&#8217;s <strong>my </strong>reply:</p>
<p>Welcome, Cynthia! I know just what you are talking about ~ that feeling of giving your life to an idea that turns out to be not so great. It&#8217;s wonderful to be out ~ to be thinking and changing ~ and yet, you still have to deal with the consequences of living out those principles which you firmly believed for so long ~ namely, having lots and lots of children to raise.</p>
<p>I often think to myself (sometimes I say it out loud) ~ <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">I have too many kids!</span></p>
<p>Not that I don&#8217;t love every single one of them. In fact, it is BECAUSE I love and value each of my children as individuals deserving of having their unique personhood encouraged and affirmed that I feel so completely overwhelmed. There is no way that I can adequately provide the nurture and support that they all need ~ I&#8217;m doomed from the outset and my poor kids can&#8217;t help but feel like I don&#8217;t pay enough attention to their needs, interests and daily goings-on.</p>
<p>I remember as a QF mother looking down at the &#8220;typical&#8221; mothers who bore an average of 1.8 children ~ they were always looking at my brood in amazement while declaring, &#8220;I don&#8217;t know how you do it! I can barely handle the two that I have.&#8221; Well ~ I truthfully believed that it was because such women are selfish and not truly trusting the Lord to provide His strength and His wisdom ~ that is why they felt inadequate.</p>
<p>But really, when those women looked at our family and marveled ~ wondered how I did it all ~ the truth is, I DIDN&#8217;T do it all. My kids were being short-changed and neglected.</p>
<p>Sure, we had become more organized, more efficient ~ I learned to delegate, set priorities and learned to lower my standard for what qualifies as a &#8220;clean&#8221; house. We pared down considerably on the amount of clothing each child had in order to cut down on the laundry. I was a &#8220;manager&#8221; of my home ~ and I made one of those handy charts laying out our schedules in 15-minute intervals. We did once-a-month cooking ~ and eventually cut down to only two meals (plus a snack) per day to eliminate the time and trouble of having to prepare, cook, eat, and clean up after another meal. We got rid of &#8220;clutter&#8221; ~ including most of the toys. We cut out extra activities. We cut out having friends ~ because that&#8217;s just another thing to deal with. We cut out family ~ no time for them either!</p>
<p>Despite running a tight ship ~ and totally having our acts together so far as organization and productivity goes ~ my kids were still neglected. We weren&#8217;t getting our homeschooling done. Although I felt that family devotions were top priority ~ we mostly only managed to do that around Christmas time when we took the month off from everything else. The older girls were skilled at housework and cooking, yes ~ but they had practically NO social skills ~ no life.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the thing ~ when I was &#8220;doing it all&#8221; ~ I seriously did not see how much was really not getting done. Not that I was completely clueless ~ just that I was so focused on dealing with Warren ~ and all the time I was just TRUSTING that by serving and supporting the Head of our home (my first calling), I could count on the Lord to take care of all the details and to make up for my inadequacies and failures. I believed that God would work it all out so long as I was faithful.</p>
<p>So ~ when someone asked me, &#8220;How do you do it all?&#8221; ~ I would give a lovely description of the wonderful life in our home where the children all worked together and &#8220;many hands make light work&#8221; ~ I would talk about our efficiency, our time-management skills, etc. It&#8217;s not that I deliberately lied ~ just that what I was trying to communicate was a VISION of a godly home ~ that&#8217;s what I wanted and that&#8217;s what I believed I had. And I could have gone on convincing myself that the Lord really was working it all out, blessing our faithfulness, and prospering our family ~ if only it weren&#8217;t for that pesky issue of Angel cutting herself ~ and then swallowing all those pills&#8230;</p>
<p>Now that I am &#8220;No Longer Quivering&#8221; ~ things have changed pretty drastically as we have been able to focus on the kids and their needs. They&#8217;re doing so much better ~ every single one of them is learning and growing ~ they continually impress me with their talent and intelligence ~ and their ability to make up for lost time.</p>
<p>Still ~ I just can&#8217;t keep up. I quit writing my &#8220;to-do&#8221; list down because I&#8217;m afraid to look at it. Ugh. Everyday after school the kids all come through the door with homework that needs to be done, papers I need to sign, money they need for this or that activity and ~ Can so-and-so come over to play? This one needs a haircut ~ another has an art project on display at the mall that we all have to see ~ they all want to use my phone to text their friends. Oh, and did I mention in all this that they seem to think they should eat and have clean clothes to wear?</p>
<p>Not too long ago, I wrote the following for our family journal:</p>
<p><span style="font-weight:bold;">I Need Staff!</span></p>
<blockquote><p>I could really use a secretary, grounds keeper, chauffeur, nanny, private tutor, maid, cook, nurse, computer technician, accountant, personal organizer and a household priest(ess) ~ oh yeah, and someone to shop and do the laundry. Maybe then there&#8217;d at least be the possibility that I might be able to keep up with things around here. I realize that moms do all this stuff even if it means never sleeping ~ hmmm &#8230; think I could hire me a wife? <span style="font-size:85%;"><span style="color:#000000;font-size:130%;">LOL!</span></span></p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m really coming to appreciate the value of a wife and mother ~ if I had one of my own, I&#8217;d probably have my book written by now <img src='http://nolongerquivering.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Of course, I love my kids and I&#8217;m glad that each and every one of them was born. BUT that truth does not negate the plain and simple fact that the Quiverfull teachings are duping women into having more children than we can responsibly care for and nurture.</p>
<p>So ~ yes, Cynthia ~ I think I understand the weird emotions you&#8217;re experiencing. It can be a little hard to articulate because we don&#8217;t want anyone to jump to the conclusion that because we feel like we have too many kids, we must not really love them.</p>
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<p><strong>NLQ Recommends ...</strong></p>

<p><strong> </strong>'<a href="http://t.co/dUxVWO8">Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment</a>' by Janet Heimlich</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/9Wm2c3">Quivering Daughters</a>‘ by Hillary McFarland</p>
<p>‘<a href="http://amzn.to/bAB5He">Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement</a>‘ by Kathryn Joyce</p>
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