Comments on: That Evil Feminist Movie, “Tangled” ./2011/04/21/nlq-forum-highlights-that-evil-feminist-movie-tangled/ There Is No 'You' In Quivering ... Sun, 06 Nov 2011 08:28:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Daniel Schealler ./2011/04/21/nlq-forum-highlights-that-evil-feminist-movie-tangled/comment-page-1/#comment-13565 Daniel Schealler Mon, 12 Sep 2011 00:06:59 +0000 ./?p=10718#comment-13565 I knew it the moment I watched it too. It gave me a lovely warm glowy feeling inside. I knew it the moment I watched it too.

It gave me a lovely warm glowy feeling inside.

]]>
By: C. Mason Taylor ./2011/04/21/nlq-forum-highlights-that-evil-feminist-movie-tangled/comment-page-1/#comment-11680 C. Mason Taylor Fri, 02 Sep 2011 18:03:09 +0000 ./?p=10718#comment-11680 What it comes down to, I think, is this: our worldviews come out in the art we make; with Tangled, the worldview of the artists is a fairly modern, liberal one, despite being an interpretation of a fairly old tale. And we can detect a difference of worldview in others. When someone makes art that's misogynistic or racist, those of us sensitive to it will notice. The truth is this: we shouldn't wave away this criticism of the movie because it's inaccurate; we should wave it away because there is nothing wrong with the modern, pro-gender equality undertones of Tangled. What it comes down to, I think, is this: our worldviews come out in the art we make; with Tangled, the worldview of the artists is a fairly modern, liberal one, despite being an interpretation of a fairly old tale. And we can detect a difference of worldview in others. When someone makes art that’s misogynistic or racist, those of us sensitive to it will notice. The truth is this: we shouldn’t wave away this criticism of the movie because it’s inaccurate; we should wave it away because there is nothing wrong with the modern, pro-gender equality undertones of Tangled.

]]>
By: Laaate post. ./2011/04/21/nlq-forum-highlights-that-evil-feminist-movie-tangled/comment-page-1/#comment-10917 Laaate post. Thu, 25 Aug 2011 00:26:58 +0000 ./?p=10718#comment-10917 [Trawling some blogs here, sorry of this is a little too late to be posting here. D;] Having experienced abuse by my own mother, this movie struck such a chord with me. Every time Gothel came on the screen, and especially during Mother Knows Best, I was distinctly and uncomfortably reminded of my mother. From the fear-mongering, personal attacks disguised as a helping hand, shaming and blaming, and ESPECIALLY every time she made an affectionate gesture that seemed genuine—but you could never really figure out if it was or not. Gah. Not to mention the possessiveness, manipulation, "I do so much for you and look how you repay me!" and God, that sneering, judgmental tone. Yeah. Serious deja vu. And then it reflected my own experience—the whole teetering between, "I'm such a horrible person!" and "I've done the right thing and I'm so happy!". So been there. So you can imagine how incredibly uplifting and encouraging it was for me to see a movie that says, "Hey, get out of there! Live your own life!" I think I'm just realizing now how many amazing parallels that movie has for survivors and victims of child abuse. Especially the part on a little rebellion being healthy. Tangled affirmed so many of my doubts—the good doubts, the ones saying, "Maybe this is wrong," "Maybe this is hurting me," "Maybe I should get out of here." Yeah. So all I have to say to anyone calling this movie 'immoral': come back to me when YOU'VE made a movie as inspiring to those who have experienced abuse. Also, I have to say I fear for your children. I'm sorry, but I do. [Trawling some blogs here, sorry of this is a little too late to be posting here. D;]

Having experienced abuse by my own mother, this movie struck such a chord with me. Every time Gothel came on the screen, and especially during Mother Knows Best, I was distinctly and uncomfortably reminded of my mother. From the fear-mongering, personal attacks disguised as a helping hand, shaming and blaming, and ESPECIALLY every time she made an affectionate gesture that seemed genuine—but you could never really figure out if it was or not. Gah.

Not to mention the possessiveness, manipulation, “I do so much for you and look how you repay me!” and God, that sneering, judgmental tone. Yeah. Serious deja vu.

And then it reflected my own experience—the whole teetering between, “I’m such a horrible person!” and “I’ve done the right thing and I’m so happy!”. So been there.

So you can imagine how incredibly uplifting and encouraging it was for me to see a movie that says, “Hey, get out of there! Live your own life!” I think I’m just realizing now how many amazing parallels that movie has for survivors and victims of child abuse. Especially the part on a little rebellion being healthy. Tangled affirmed so many of my doubts—the good doubts, the ones saying, “Maybe this is wrong,” “Maybe this is hurting me,” “Maybe I should get out of here.”

Yeah. So all I have to say to anyone calling this movie ‘immoral’: come back to me when YOU’VE made a movie as inspiring to those who have experienced abuse. Also, I have to say I fear for your children. I’m sorry, but I do.

]]>
By: 1st-Time Mommy ./2011/04/21/nlq-forum-highlights-that-evil-feminist-movie-tangled/comment-page-1/#comment-9238 1st-Time Mommy Tue, 26 Apr 2011 16:54:33 +0000 ./?p=10718#comment-9238 I watched this movie with my not-quite-two-year-old son this weekend, and we both loved it. However, from a QF/P standpoint, the part that stood out in my mind very strongly since watching it occurs in the first rendition of "Mother Knows Best". Gothel is the EPITOME of QF/P logic when she derides Rapunzel's desire to go out into the world "underdressed"...despite the fact that she has been the one keeping her locked at home barefoot. She allows her no means of being prepare for going out into the world...and then tells her she can't go out into the world because she's unprepared. That's like homeschooled cult 101. I watched this movie with my not-quite-two-year-old son this weekend, and we both loved it. However, from a QF/P standpoint, the part that stood out in my mind very strongly since watching it occurs in the first rendition of “Mother Knows Best”.

Gothel is the EPITOME of QF/P logic when she derides Rapunzel’s desire to go out into the world “underdressed”…despite the fact that she has been the one keeping her locked at home barefoot. She allows her no means of being prepare for going out into the world…and then tells her she can’t go out into the world because she’s unprepared.

That’s like homeschooled cult 101.

]]>
By: Headless Unicorn Guy ./2011/04/21/nlq-forum-highlights-that-evil-feminist-movie-tangled/comment-page-1/#comment-9224 Headless Unicorn Guy Mon, 25 Apr 2011 18:07:28 +0000 ./?p=10718#comment-9224 I'm in Furry Fandom. I have been (falsely) accused of bestiality in an email smear campaign for no other reason. ANY romance between a human and a nonhuman or semihuman (note: NOT animal) is going to get denounced for "promoting bestiality". Especially if said non/semihuman has "bestial" appearance. It's something that comes with the terrirory. Just Google "Furry Fandom" for similar smears all over the Web. (Compounded by the fact that there ARE some pretty crazy types in the fandom who invoke Rule 34 on any pretext and/or like to Jerry Springer before the media.) Accusations of Bestiality are so common that hearing Thundercats denounced as "Egyptian Paganism" instead sticks in my mind after 20 years. I’m in Furry Fandom. I have been (falsely) accused of bestiality in an email smear campaign for no other reason. ANY romance between a human and a nonhuman or semihuman (note: NOT animal) is going to get denounced for “promoting bestiality”. Especially if said non/semihuman has “bestial” appearance. It’s something that comes with the terrirory.

Just Google “Furry Fandom” for similar smears all over the Web. (Compounded by the fact that there ARE some pretty crazy types in the fandom who invoke Rule 34 on any pretext and/or like to Jerry Springer before the media.) Accusations of Bestiality are so common that hearing Thundercats denounced as “Egyptian Paganism” instead sticks in my mind after 20 years.

]]>
By: Headless Unicorn Guy ./2011/04/21/nlq-forum-highlights-that-evil-feminist-movie-tangled/comment-page-1/#comment-9223 Headless Unicorn Guy Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:57:56 +0000 ./?p=10718#comment-9223 Amaranth, there are people who read books and watch movies under a microscope for no other reason than to find something just so they can get into a snit over it. And it's not just Church Ladies and "Kyle's Moms". I'm trying to jump-start a second career as an SF writer, and in any sort of "Hard SF" there are Experts (TM) who will parse your physics and biology letter-by-letter just so they can catch you in some scientific error and crow about how Stupid You Are. And Kyle's Moms take this ego-boo one step further; they always have to be on some Crusade just so Everybody Can Know How Important They Are, Saving those Sheeple from Their Own Stupidity. In the 1950s it was Comic Books. In the 1970s, Dungeons & Dragons. In the 1990s, Harry Potter. Same pattern, same snit, same Righteous Activism. Why should Rapunzel be immune? Amaranth, there are people who read books and watch movies under a microscope for no other reason than to find something just so they can get into a snit over it. And it’s not just Church Ladies and “Kyle’s Moms”.

I’m trying to jump-start a second career as an SF writer, and in any sort of “Hard SF” there are Experts (TM) who will parse your physics and biology letter-by-letter just so they can catch you in some scientific error and crow about how Stupid You Are.

And Kyle’s Moms take this ego-boo one step further; they always have to be on some Crusade just so Everybody Can Know How Important They Are, Saving those Sheeple from Their Own Stupidity. In the 1950s it was Comic Books. In the 1970s, Dungeons & Dragons. In the 1990s, Harry Potter. Same pattern, same snit, same Righteous Activism. Why should Rapunzel be immune?

]]>
By: betcha ./2011/04/21/nlq-forum-highlights-that-evil-feminist-movie-tangled/comment-page-1/#comment-9210 betcha Sun, 24 Apr 2011 22:34:05 +0000 ./?p=10718#comment-9210 I think the defining moment of their relationship comes when Gothel returns to find Rapunzel gone. Instead of actually worrying about her--a real mother would be terrified!--she is furious with Rapunzel and begins plotting to sabotage her love life and return her to the tower. Her only emotions seem related to her loss of Rapunzel's hair to keep her young. From the beginning, it appears that despite her sick ways she may actually have grown to care for Rapunzel, but nope! (It reminds me of when Solomon offered to cut a baby in half to figure out which of two women claiming her was the child's real mother! The mom was horrified and offered to give the child up to save him and was promptly reunited with her offspring. The other lady would have actually been satisfied with half a baby, just to validate her ego.) I think the defining moment of their relationship comes when Gothel returns to find Rapunzel gone.

Instead of actually worrying about her–a real mother would be terrified!–she is furious with Rapunzel and begins plotting to sabotage her love life and return her to the tower. Her only emotions seem related to her loss of Rapunzel’s hair to keep her young.

From the beginning, it appears that despite her sick ways she may actually have grown to care for Rapunzel, but nope!

(It reminds me of when Solomon offered to cut a baby in half to figure out which of two women claiming her was the child’s real mother! The mom was horrified and offered to give the child up to save him and was promptly reunited with her offspring. The other lady would have actually been satisfied with half a baby, just to validate her ego.)

]]>
By: africaturtle ./2011/04/21/nlq-forum-highlights-that-evil-feminist-movie-tangled/comment-page-1/#comment-9186 africaturtle Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:00:41 +0000 ./?p=10718#comment-9186 funny because the critical voices I heard concerning this movie took it a step further in saying the story was immoral because it promoted beastiality! yup... funny because the critical voices I heard concerning this movie took it a step further in saying the story was immoral because it promoted beastiality! yup…

]]>
By: Jenny Islander ./2011/04/21/nlq-forum-highlights-that-evil-feminist-movie-tangled/comment-page-1/#comment-9181 Jenny Islander Fri, 22 Apr 2011 04:13:16 +0000 ./?p=10718#comment-9181 Has anybody who is critical of the movie on such grounds ever directly addressed that horrific little production number, "Mother Knows Best?" It's a perfect carbuncle of things that Gothel does to Rapunzel to keep her prisoner. Displays of aggressive dominance disguised as affectionate gestures. Attacks on Rapunzel's character, appearance, and behavior delivered in a sweet tone of voice. Systematically shutting away the light that Rapunzel needs and then putting out every candle she tries to light--with a smug smile, no less. Vamping like mad and then telling <i>Rapunzel</i> to stop the drama. Systematically terrifying her with a list of horrors that Gothel knows very well are exaggerated or outright lies, then begging <i>Rapunzel</i> to stop upsetting <i>her!</i> Did you catch how Gothel's loving looks and gestures are all directed at Rapunzel's hair, while Rapunzel gets the putdowns? And of course, Rapunzel wouldn't even be there if Gothel could've just cut her hair. She's only there because of what Gothel can get out of having her. The climactic scene can be read as the final escape from a toxic home as the head of that household sees her power broken. Has anybody who is critical of the movie on such grounds ever directly addressed that horrific little production number, “Mother Knows Best?” It’s a perfect carbuncle of things that Gothel does to Rapunzel to keep her prisoner. Displays of aggressive dominance disguised as affectionate gestures. Attacks on Rapunzel’s character, appearance, and behavior delivered in a sweet tone of voice. Systematically shutting away the light that Rapunzel needs and then putting out every candle she tries to light–with a smug smile, no less. Vamping like mad and then telling Rapunzel to stop the drama. Systematically terrifying her with a list of horrors that Gothel knows very well are exaggerated or outright lies, then begging Rapunzel to stop upsetting her!

Did you catch how Gothel’s loving looks and gestures are all directed at Rapunzel’s hair, while Rapunzel gets the putdowns? And of course, Rapunzel wouldn’t even be there if Gothel could’ve just cut her hair. She’s only there because of what Gothel can get out of having her.

The climactic scene can be read as the final escape from a toxic home as the head of that household sees her power broken.

]]>
By: Secular Thursday: So Much Suck [and a few things that don't suck] » Smrt Lernins ./2011/04/21/nlq-forum-highlights-that-evil-feminist-movie-tangled/comment-page-1/#comment-9173 Secular Thursday: So Much Suck [and a few things that don't suck] » Smrt Lernins Thu, 21 Apr 2011 22:18:12 +0000 ./?p=10718#comment-9173 [...] “Ladies Against Feminism”: Suck. [However, No Longer Quivering doesn't [...] [...] “Ladies Against Feminism”: Suck. [However, No Longer Quivering doesn't [...]

]]>